[LaLaLand]

I find it awful that the majority of people on social media etc are basically just flat-out dismissing the two guy's revelations as lies, regardless of the trial and all that stuff, JUST BECAUSE it's MJ they're accusing. We all know that in terms of these cases, and some more serious, that correct justice does not always prevail.

I'm not saying I believe or disbelieve them, I just don't think anybody would make stuff like this up, especially in such detail and in such a big way like this (regardless of their sketchy behaviour in history [Wade] - which could have been a result OF said abuse), the way in which they've basically been lynched by many is one of the big reasons why abuse victims never come forward, for fear of being called a liar.

I dunno what to think.

[Marsh.]

Oh I agree about them basically being lynched on social media.

I disagree about not thinking anybody would lie about something like this. People can be horrible bastards.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jonnii

I find it awful that the majority of people on social media etc are basically just flat-out dismissing the two guy's revelations as lies, regardless of the trial and all that stuff, JUST BECAUSE it's MJ they're accusing. We all know that in terms of these cases, and some more serious, that correct justice does not always prevail.

I'm not saying I believe or disbelieve them, I just don't think anybody would make stuff like this up, especially in such detail and in such a big way like this (regardless of their sketchy behaviour in history [Wade] - which could have been a result OF said abuse), the way in which they've basically been lynched by many is one of the big reasons why abuse victims never come forward, for fear of being called a liar.

I dunno what to think.

I cannot remember this happening with Rolf Harris and Savilles victims ?

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Jonnii

I find it awful that the majority of people on social media etc are basically just flat-out dismissing the two guy's revelations as lies, regardless of the trial and all that stuff, JUST BECAUSE it's MJ they're accusing. We all know that in terms of these cases, and some more serious, that correct justice does not always prevail.

I'm not saying I believe or disbelieve them, I just don't think anybody would make stuff like this up, especially in such detail and in such a big way like this (regardless of their sketchy behaviour in history [Wade] - which could have been a result OF said abuse), the way in which they've basically been lynched by many is one of the big reasons why abuse victims never come forward, for fear of being called a liar.

I dunno what to think.

And that’s blinded loyalty....people who adored him, awestruck. The very people who discredit two men who at the tender age of 7 were groomed by MJ and adored him but can’t understand their loyalty to him whilst he was alive.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

And that’s blinded loyalty....people who adored him, awestruck. The very people who discredit two men who at the tender age of 7 were groomed by MJ and adored him but can’t understand their loyalty to him whilst he was alive.

I'm a fan, but I am in no way blinded by loyalty,I have just taken time to see and hear both sides of this and so far as much as people condemn him ,no actual proof ,we can call them liars just as people who believe them ,call anyone who believes Jackson etc a liar.

[chuff me dizzy]

Matt Lucas got abuse and a death threat form MJ fans

https://www.entertainmentdaily.co.uk...-jackson-fans/

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jonnii

I find it awful that the majority of people on social media etc are basically just flat-out dismissing the two guy's revelations as lies, regardless of the trial and all that stuff, JUST BECAUSE it's MJ they're accusing. We all know that in terms of these cases, and some more serious, that correct justice does not always prevail.

I'm not saying I believe or disbelieve them, I just don't think anybody would make stuff like this up, especially in such detail and in such a big way like this (regardless of their sketchy behaviour in history [Wade] - which could have been a result OF said abuse), the way in which they've basically been lynched by many is one of the big reasons why abuse victims never come forward, for fear of being called a liar.

I dunno what to think.

I agree, no matter what you think someone coming forward with abuse claims should always at the very least be given the benefit of the doubt unless it can be proven that they ARE lying. No matter how hard people believe Wade and James are lying, there's no definitive proof of that, either. Their financial troubles are not proof, their personalities aren't proof, the previous trials are not proof.

I fear that not just the disbelief of them, but the venom, hatred and mocking that is being thrown at them, will do massive damage to any historic abuse victim who might be thinking of coming forward.

There's a HUGE difference between saying "There's not enough here to make me personally believe that Michael Jackson is guilty", and saying "These two are LIARS and SCUM!!!" ... which so many people are doing. Like I said that should never, ever be the reaction to someone coming forward with allegations like these.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

I cannot remember this happening with Rolf Harris and Savilles victims ?

Then your memory fails you. Because it did.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Then your memory fails you. Because it did.

Yes, Vicky posted the Saville thread yesterday, it was jammed full of familiar faces insisting that Saville's accusers were "after money". Honestly a fascinating read given that it was a full 7 years ago. So I guess you have to assume that social media was similar.

TBH quite a few people STILL defend ol' Harris.

[Beso]

I watched the videos the other day Kaz. ..just the same old pishy rumblings of a load of paid off nonces imo.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

the same old pishy rumblings of a load of paid off nonces imo.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

And that’s blinded loyalty....people who adored him, awestruck. The very people who discredit two men who at the tender age of 7 were groomed by MJ and adored him but can’t understand their loyalty to him whilst he was alive.

fantastic post

[user104658]

We ploughed through the R Kelly documentary (it's called "Surviving R Kelly") yesterday, it's pretty long (about 5 and a half hours) but honestly, in some ways it's an even wilder ride than this one.

Plus like I said a couple of pages back, it illustrates a lot about the power of stardom. He went to trial on child porn charges and was found guilty. THERE WAS A VIDEO! The jury saw it! The press and even the lawyers were considering the trial to be practically a formality, everyone saw the tape and knew it was real, and yet the jury was like "nah" . His own lawyer from the trial admits that he was definitely guilty and yet .

Was also interesting to note that he was an acquaintance of MJ at one point.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I'm a fan, but I am in no way blinded by loyalty,I have just taken time to see and hear both sides of this and so far as much as people condemn him ,no actual proof ,we can call them liars just as people who believe them ,call anyone who believes Jackson etc a liar.

I’m not saying you can’t call them liars...I’ve told you I respect your opinion as I do everybody’s.
We know there is no ‘proof’...just the word of those that have come forward...and the suspiciously bizarre behaviour of an adult man.

[UserSince2005]

Anyone who doesnt believe them deserves MJ set upon them.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

We ploughed through the R Kelly documentary (it's called "Surviving R Kelly") yesterday, it's pretty long (about 5 and a half hours) but honestly, in some ways it's an even wilder ride than this one.

Plus like I said a couple of pages back, it illustrates a lot about the power of stardom. He went to trial on child porn charges and was found guilty. THERE WAS A VIDEO! The jury saw it! The press and even the lawyers were considering the trial to be practically a formality, everyone saw the tape and knew it was real, and yet the jury was like "nah" . His own lawyer from the trial admits that he was definitely guilty and yet .

Was also interesting to note that he was an acquaintance of MJ at one point.

As was trump, and his children.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Anyone who doesnt believe them deserves MJ set upon them.

Anyone who believes them deserves Weinstein set upon them.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

We ploughed through the R Kelly documentary (it's called "Surviving R Kelly") yesterday, it's pretty long (about 5 and a half hours) but honestly, in some ways it's an even wilder ride than this one.

Plus like I said a couple of pages back, it illustrates a lot about the power of stardom. He went to trial on child porn charges and was found guilty. THERE WAS A VIDEO! The jury saw it! The press and even the lawyers were considering the trial to be practically a formality, everyone saw the tape and knew it was real, and yet the jury was like "nah" . His own lawyer from the trial admits that he was definitely guilty and yet .

Was also interesting to note that he was an acquaintance of MJ at one point.

I watched the first two episodes, and while I do believe the allegations against him and the victims shown... I just found the presentation of the documentary itself to be very leading and one sided. It is why I've chosen not to watch the MJ one now.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Mokka

I watched the first two episodes, and while I do believe the allegations against him and the victims shown... I just found the presentation of the documentary itself to be very leading and one sided. It is why I've chosen not to watch the MJ one now.

To be fair there's not much to disbelieve in the R Kelly case; the tape exists, it did the rounds years ago and it's apparently still online (though I'd suggest not looking for it, obviously it's child porn and thus highly illegal), the girl in it is 14... There's not much more to say. There's also very little doubt over him being abusive, by court order he's not allowed near his ex wife or kids. I do find some of the later "cult" stuff a bit far fetched though. I think it's more that people can't get their heads around the fact that the two girls who are still with him genuinely seem to want to be there so people think they MUST be "brainwashed".

Also the girl who ended up stealing the tape was BLATANTLY trying to blackmail him, she keeps insisting not in the documentary and it's like "Err.... No one even asked?" but the circumstances are dodgy there. However, again, that doesn't really matter; she was using it to try to blackmail him because the tape is *real*, and that's the important aspect.

Again though, to get both sides you can watch other interviews etc. with Kelly and his two current girlfriends. Overall I think it gives an extensive picture. The stuff from his lawyer also comes from a non-documentary source.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I'm a fan, but I am in no way blinded by loyalty,I have just taken time to see and hear both sides of this and so far as much as people condemn him ,no actual proof ,we can call them liars just as people who believe them ,call anyone who believes Jackson etc a liar.

Leaving Neverland is full of biased one sided stories and suspicious editing.

Did you hear about the birthday message ?? , even that they twisted for their own narrative

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

We ploughed through the R Kelly documentary (it's called "Surviving R Kelly") yesterday, it's pretty long (about 5 and a half hours) but honestly, in some ways it's an even wilder ride than this one.

Plus like I said a couple of pages back, it illustrates a lot about the power of stardom. He went to trial on child porn charges and was found guilty. THERE WAS A VIDEO! The jury saw it! The press and even the lawyers were considering the trial to be practically a formality, everyone saw the tape and knew it was real, and yet the jury was like "nah" . His own lawyer from the trial admits that he was definitely guilty and yet .

Was also interesting to note that he was an acquaintance of MJ at one point.

I seem to think R Kelly defended him at his trial ?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Anyone who believes them deserves Weinstein set upon them.

Well I will point and laugh at his flaccid penis and pathetic bathrobe....then kick him in the bits.

[Beso]

Actually I would probably wank him off for 5g

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Leaving Neverland is full of biased one sided stories and suspicious editing.

Did you hear about the birthday message ?? , even that they twisted for their own narrative

Well of course it’s biased...it’s telling THEIR story and showing us insights of his life that shows behaviour supporting their claim. What did you expect?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Well of course it’s biased...it’s telling THEIR story and showing us insights of his life that shows behaviour supporting their claim. What did you expect?

The birthday video was filmed months before Wade's birthday .

And they edited out bits