[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I believe it might be referring to this;



(the above BIB is in reference to the way these discussions go on "Mumsnet")

...oh I knew you would be the culprit tbh...you’re the only hysterical person around here so it had to be you......(....sorry I have to rush this because I’m about to go out..)...okay so I didn’t agree with Liv in that anything in the story could be referred to as hysterical and to do so can lessen genuine concerns and genuine issues etc and also genuine discriminations potentially..?...that’s the danger, which I’m sure you’ll agree, TS...and there you go....you’ve just done exactly the same with what you said..(...just taking that one post only that you’ve showed me ..)...you’ve just attempted to invalidate and lesson something someone said because of the source of mumsnet...?...I mean surely you did there what you don’t seem to think is a good idea and two wrongs don’t make a right etc...




...adios amigo....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In the recent thread about the issues in sports literally everyone agreed with the premise that there are unfair advantages, and the only disagreement was over the spite / anger / insensitivity that's often on display.

The argument was

"Yeah it's a problem and needs addressed but we need to find sensitive ways to do that"

vs

"TOUGH **** EX PENIS-PEOPLE get your wig off and back to your man-stuff!!!"


No one on this forum argued for trans athletes to be included unquestioningly in male sports. Literally no one. And people still managed to get angry about the mere existence of transpeople. Therein lies the issue that people keep insisting I'm imagining.

I love the way you expect people to speak like your first example when they're talking about womens rights but don't think you(or people speaking about trans rights) need to adhere to those rules yourselves though


*I'm pretty sure I've never spoke like your second example (infact I would say 100% sure)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...oh I knew you would be the culprit tbh...you’re the only hysterical person around here so it had to be you......(....sorry I have to rush this because I’m about to go out..)...okay so I didn’t agree with Liv in that anything in the story could be referred to as hysterical and to do so can lessen genuine concerns and genuine issues etc and also genuine discriminations potentially..?...that’s the danger, which I’m sure you’ll agree, TS...and there you go....you’ve just done exactly the same with what you said..(...just taking that one post only that you’ve showed me ..)...you’ve just attempted to invalidate and lesson something someone said because of the source of mumsnet...?...I mean surely you did there what you don’t seem to think is a good idea and two wrongs don’t make a right etc...




...adios amigo....

see ya Ammi, don't be a stranger

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I stand by it too Ammi; the raging Mumsnet threads on trans rights are ridiculous transphobic witch-hunts that generate completely unreasonable levels of fear an paranoia, and threads on here on trans issues CAN and HAVE gone the same way

...maybe they do all of that...I’ve only ever glanced at Mumsnet so I wouldn’t know...but maybe there are quite a lot of raging people on there hunting the witches etc with their fear and their paranoia...?...but if that’s all you see and you’re not listening and absorbing because of that...?...then I would guess that you’re probably missing some very good points and concerns which should be raised...not dismissed...it’s exactly the same as this..’..there are more important things so let’s just dismiss this concern’...that’s happened in this discussion/thread surely...?...yes my friend it is...exactly the same ....

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, dismissing womens concerns as hysteria isn't very helpful to discussions either TS, is it?

*not to mention pretty sexist

Is it not possible to point out that a concern is being expressed in an aggressive, sometimes needlessly offensive way, loaded down with some baseless assumptions, whilst still taking the core concern seriously? If I acknowledge that there's an issue, do I have to accept the unpleasant packaging of that concern? I'd say not, personally. Like I said, using sports as an example again, I'm in full agreement that women's sports need to be protected from potential problems but I'm not in support of the arguably transphobic rhetoric that often surrounds that message. I can't really say it any more clearly than that, I guess.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...maybe they do all of that...I’ve only ever glanced at Mumsnet so I wouldn’t know...but maybe there are quite a lot of raging people on there hunting the witches etc with their fear and their paranoia...?...but if that’s all you see and you’re not listening and absorbing because of that...?...then I would guess that you’re probably missing some very good points and concerns which should be raised...not dismissed...it’s exactly the same as this..’..there are more important things so let’s just dismiss this concern’...that’s happened in this discussion/thread surely...?...yes my friend it is...exactly the same ....

I can only refer you to the above example about sports which there was another large thread on that you missed, Ammi. The core concern wasn't dismissed by anyone - I think literally everyone agreed on that concern, yet an argument erupted over the clear anger / distaste towards transwomen that accompanied that concern.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Is it not possible to point out that a concern is being expressed in an aggressive, sometimes needlessly offensive way, loaded down with some baseless assumptions, whilst still taking the core concern seriously? If I acknowledge that there's an issue, do I have to accept the unpleasant packaging of that concern? I'd say not, personally. Like I said, using sports as an example again, I'm in full agreement that women's sports need to be protected from potential problems but I'm not in support of the arguably transphobic rhetoric that often surrounds that message. I can't really say it any more clearly than that, I guess.

Of course, however you only ever see the bad side in womens concerns, never seen you say a word about the bad side in how some trans people express their views sometimes ( (not all obviously) (the cyclist who took Martina Navratolva(sp) to task is a very good example of that.)

Anyway, I'm actually going to leave it here with you TS because we've really covered this ground numerous times and clearly we're not making any new ground on it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Of course, however you only ever see the bad side in womens concerns, never seen you say a word about the bad side in how some trans people express their views sometimes

I can only promise that if there was a transwoman on here doing that, I am confident that I would . But there isn't.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I can only promise that if there was a transwoman on here doing that, I am confident that I would . But there isn't.

mumsnet isn't a member here either Nice try though. Right I'm really bowing out now.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

mumsnet isn't a member here either Nice try though. Right I'm really bowing out now.

Yes but I did say (at great personal risk )

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

threads on here on trans issues CAN and HAVE gone the same way

[Northern Monkey]

It’s a mine field these days all this transgender stuff.Soon staff at public services will just turn around and run away if they see a transgender incase they get something wrong.....Literal transphobia.

[Cherie]

The only other thing I can add is its probably better not to walk around in Ann Summers gear in public if you want to be taken seriously, especially during panto season