[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

They're cultures.

Are they strictly [insert nationality]? Not at all.

It is kind of funny for people to get precious about aspects of our culture that have a) not disappeared and b) are not exclusively English. It is just evolving, as it always has done, and will continue to do so.

If that's your opinion I'll take that Marshy. Even if it makes just a modicum of sense.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

If that's your opinion I'll take that Marshy. Even if it makes just a modicum of sense.

How so?

If you're not going to actually say anything there's no use responding.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

How so?

If you're not going to actually say anything there's no use responding.

Calm down Marshy, we're on TiBB, not Newsnight.

All cultures are an amalgam of other cultures. That doesn't mean that English culture doesn't exist any more than it means Indian culture doesn't exist. They're both multi-faceted things, made up of many parts. That doesn't make them less a part of that particular country.

[Marsh.]

Perfectly calm. Patronise someone else.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Perfectly calm. Patronise someone else.

Hey, what's your problem this morning Mr Touchy. I reserve the right to extract the urine from you whenever I see fit, young man. And grant you the same right to do the same to me... not that you need my permission.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

That doesn't mean that English culture doesn't exist any more than it means Indian culture doesn't exist. They're both multi-faceted things, made up of many parts. That doesn't make them less a part of that particular country.

Well it seems our disagreement is over semantics.

My point was that "English culture" isn't this unmoveable, specific, unchanging thing. So our culture evolving, changing and being affected by immigration and other effects has always happened and always will. Hence our culture not being isolated and "only bloody British!!!". In that sense there is no "English culture" to be so protective of.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Hey, what's your problem this morning Mr Touchy. I reserve the right to extract the urine from you whenever I see fit, young man. And grant you the same right to do the same to me... not that you need my permission.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well it seems our disagreement is over semantics.

My point was that "English culture" isn't this unmoveable, specific, unchanging thing. So our culture evolving, changing and being affected by immigration and other effects has always happened and always will. Hence our culture not being isolated and "only bloody British!!!". In that sense there is no "English culture" to be so protective of.

We don't have a disagreement.

We're kind of agreeing. I never said any culture was an immovable, unchanging thing set in stone. If that was the case art would have died a couple of hundred years ago... and literature wouldn't have moved on from Shakespeare. My point is that, just because all cultures are made up of the best of other cultures, doesn't mean that particular culture isn't inherent to that particular country.

Now, if you don't mind, I need a lot more caffeine before I talk about anything else other than bunnies or the weather. x

[Marsh.]

I didn't say that culture wasn't inherent to a particular country at a specific point in time. I'm saying those who claim we're "losing our culture" don't quite understand what that means in regards to culture not being a stationary thing and they see any change at all as "bloody foreigners coming over and eradicating our culture!!!" which is just a tad silly.

(I hope I used the correct stationary as I'm not talking about pens.)

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I didn't say that culture wasn't inherent to a particular country at a specific point in time. I'm saying those who claim we're "losing our culture" don't quite understand what that means in regards to culture not being a stationary thing and they see any change at all as "bloody foreigners coming over and eradicating our culture!!!" which is just a tad silly.

(I hope I used the correct stationary as I'm not talking about pens.)

Stationary, that's right. I always remember which one to use by remembering it's E for envelopes.

Maybe "culture" wasn't defined enough. It's like my trip to Rome recently. I met so many actual Romans, working everywhere, great Italian restaurants, Italian leather shops.... it all felt very... Italian. In east London now you'd struggle to get Pie & Mash, a cockney superfood... but you can buy a samosa anywhere. One has pushed out the other whereas they used to sit side by side quite comfortably.

[Withano]

it’s like the most multi-cultural country in the world and we have a weird and wonderful blend of hundreds of cultures, with angry old white brits crying loudly about it in the background

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Stationary, that's right. I always remember which one to use by remembering it's E for envelopes.

Maybe "culture" wasn't defined enough. It's like my trip to Rome recently. I met so many actual Romans, working everywhere, great Italian restaurants, Italian leather shops.... it all felt very... Italian. In east London now you'd struggle to get Pie & Mash, a cockney superfood... but you can buy a samosa anywhere. One has pushed out the other whereas they used to sit side by side quite comfortably.

I would agree with this, depending on where you live you will have differing views I guess

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Withano

it’s like the most multi-cultural country in the world and we have a weird and wonderful blend of hundreds of cultures, with angry old white brits crying loudly about it in the background

...’weird and wonderful’...that’s the perfect description.....

[Vicky.]

Honestly, I switch off with this argument as I don't even know what 'British culture' is, and generally the person saying we are losing it cannot actually explain what we are losing, so I tend to conclude that..well they are just moaning for the sake of moaning if they cannot even explain why they are moaning..

[Ammi]

...why are you moaning, Vicky..?...stop moaning, you moaner...

[Vicky.]

Am always moaning about something...currently its moaning about people who moan without knowing why they are moaning

[Cherie]

I think what is happening in Birmingham at the moment is a perfect example, I could also give examples in Spain where the Brits live in enclaves and only speak English, the Spanish don't like it and why would they, so this is not a totally British problem

[Liam-]

Brits that moan that our culture is being stolen or minimised are probably the same folks that moan when waiters in foreign countries don’t speak enough English

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Brits that moan that our culture is being stolen or minimised are probably the same folks that moan when waiters in foreign countries don’t speak enough English

I have seen that a LOT. People saying others should speak English here, but moaning that those abroad don't speak english (or good english, usually in tourist areas a bit is picked up) too. Like, they expect all immigrants to learn english but seem to be fine with the english moving abroad and never learning the language because..'everyone should speak English' for reasons unknown

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Withano

it’s like the most multi-cultural country in the world and we have a weird and wonderful blend of hundreds of cultures, with angry old white brits crying loudly about it in the background

No, it may be a wonderful diverse mix where you are, but where I lived, there are no white people left. And they've left because if they'd said, hang on, I don't mind living in a multicultural society, in fact I quite enjoy it being a minority myself, but my own people are being squeezed out... then someone like you would have said something like you've just said above. No one likes to be called a racist when they're not.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Brits that moan that our culture is being stolen or minimised are probably the same folks that moan when waiters in foreign countries don’t speak enough English

I speak four languages. How about you?

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by Livia

I speak four languages. How about you?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think what is happening in Birmingham at the moment is a perfect example, I could also give examples in Spain where the Brits live in enclaves and only speak English, the Spanish don't like it and why would they, so this is not a totally British problem

Yes, I agree with that. I've never understood why people would want to live in a country but then not embrace the culture. I mean, why would you choose to live in Spain and then stick to your English mates, don't learn the language and entertain yourself with El Pub and El Fish & Chips. It makes no sense. Similarly, I can't understand why someone would choose to live in the UK and then not learn the language, dictate our curriculum etc.

[Beso]

Are we losing any?

I was out yesterday and I saw rows and rows of shops selling the flag tshirts, and flags...all these baldy men with tattoos running up and down thier arms and legs going in and out all day.......


I love edinburgh.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

Stationary, that's right. I always remember which one to use by remembering it's E for envelopes.

Maybe "culture" wasn't defined enough. It's like my trip to Rome recently. I met so many actual Romans, working everywhere, great Italian restaurants, Italian leather shops.... it all felt very... Italian. In east London now you'd struggle to get Pie & Mash, a cockney superfood... but you can buy a samosa anywhere. One has pushed out the other whereas they used to sit side by side quite comfortably.

Strong way of putting it. How are these people being 'pushed' out' of their homes? 'Quite comfortably' You need to explain that comment my recollection is not quite so comfortable