[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Depends on the project, as it's been said it's not a blanket rule. Sometimes the best choice will be a trans actor, other times it won't. What's more important is the ability to embody the story and struggle of their characters and great actors can do that regardless of their gender status.

I agree to some extent except that imo the only time I can see the need for a cis actor is if its a transition story because I honestly can't see any justification for not hiring a trans actor to play a trans person whos already gone through their transition. There's already not many opportunities in Hollywood for trans people so hiring a cisgender person to convey their stories is just a slap in the face to the trans community.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well, I think that's the point, it entirely depends on the project/story. It shouldn't be a blanket rule that cis play cis, trans play trans, gay play gay etc. It should be down to the individual project and what is the best way to tell the story.

it would be cute if it worked the other way round but how many studios are rushing to give trans people roles meant for cisgender people? I don't really care about heterosexuals playing gay because while it's not equal it still happens the other way round frequently enough that it doesn't bother me at all.

[Livia]

Oh leave her alone. My favourite Shakespeare play is Henry V - a white man. The best version I ever saw was when Henry was played by black actor Adrian Lester. I don't recall any backlash about a white man being played by a black man and it took absolutely nothing away from the play.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Livia

Oh leave her alone. My favourite Shakespeare play is Henry V - a white man. The best version I ever saw was when Henry was played by black actor Adrian Lester. I don't recall any backlash about a white man being played by a black man and it took absolutely nothing away from the play.

Theatre is very different from film and tv.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

Theatre is very different from film and tv.

Why is it. In what way is it.

What disturbs me armand, and I'd be really interested in your reaction to this... what do you think about the way black people are being drafted in to play parts in Victorian dramas... and they're shown in positions of power... policemen, I've seen a black actor playing one of Queen Victoria's Household Cavalry (I don't they really had a black soldier till the 1980s). Do you think that helps with ethnic diversity, or do you think it might give some people the idea that black people have always be able to hold those kinds of positions and what's all the fuss about?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

I agree to some extent except that imo the only time I can see the need for a cis actor is if its a transition story because I honestly can't see any justification for not hiring a trans actor to play a trans person whos already gone through their transition. There's already not many opportunities in Hollywood for trans people so hiring a cisgender person to convey their stories is just a slap in the face to the trans community.

I agree with you but then again I'd also like to see trans actors get roles that aren't trans characters as well. It's a complaint I've seen often from the community that trans actors are typically only considered to play trans roles so I think it's a matter of give and take. It would be preferable to hire a trans actor for a trans role but you don't want to go too far in one direction and enforce a view point that trans actors can ONLY play trans roles.

[Tom4784]

Theatre has always been seen as colour blind and it generally has a more open minded and more specific audience while cinema appeals to almost everyone. Not everyone goes to see plays but almost everyone watches films.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Oh leave her alone. My favourite Shakespeare play is Henry V - a white man. The best version I ever saw was when Henry was played by black actor Adrian Lester. I don't recall any backlash about a white man being played by a black man and it took absolutely nothing away from the play.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Theatre has always been seen as colour blind and it generally has a more open minded and more specific audience while cinema appeals to almost everyone. Not everyone goes to see plays but almost everyone watches films.

I dunno about there not being a backlash when it's the reverse, or people being more open to it in theatre... Hermionegate was only a couple of years ago.

[James]

I don't get why Scarlett got criticism for being cast in Ghost in the Shell, but then there was nothing when Rosa Salazar - who is not Asian - was cast in Alita.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Livia

What disturbs me armand, and I'd be really interested in your reaction to this... what do you think about the way black people are being drafted in to play parts in Victorian dramas... and they're shown in positions of power... policemen, I've seen a black actor playing one of Queen Victoria's Household Cavalry (I don't they really had a black soldier till the 1980s). Do you think that helps with ethnic diversity, or do you think it might give some people the idea that black people have always be able to hold those kinds of positions and what's all the fuss about?

I think in some cases it should be "allowed" to ignore quotas.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Why is it. In what way is it.



What disturbs me armand, and I'd be really interested in your reaction to this... what do you think about the way black people are being drafted in to play parts in Victorian dramas... and they're shown in positions of power... policemen, I've seen a black actor playing one of Queen Victoria's Household Cavalry (I don't they really had a black soldier till the 1980s). Do you think that helps with ethnic diversity, or do you think it might give some people the idea that black people have always be able to hold those kinds of positions and what's all the fuss about?

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

Yeah, Royal courts back then were probably about as diverse as ... Royal courts now, hahaha. Even less so!

But the streets? My mum likes to karp on about "Black Nancys". Nancy could have been black, she was a street thief, not rich or anything. Now on the other hand, I'm of the firm belief Oliver should look like me when I was young, if I'd have lived in a workhouse.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I dunno about there not being a backlash when it's the reverse, or people being more open to it in theatre... Hermionegate was only a couple of years ago.

It's Harry Potter though so that play gathered a lot of attention from outside of the theatre world. A lot of that anger was from people who wouldn't typically be theatregoers.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by James

I don't get why Scarlett got criticism for being cast in Ghost in the Shell, but then there was nothing when Rosa Salazar - who is not Asian - was cast in Alita.

I think the difference is that Motoko Kusanagi, even after her transformation into a cyborg was always presented as being Japanese while Alita as a character isn't presented as being of any particular race.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

I know there were black people in London in Victorian times. And Chinese and Asian and all sorts of other nationalities. I come from the area of London's Royal Docks and the area was multicultural - to an extent - since the docks opened in the mid 1800s. My point is that sometimes black people are portrayed in roles that would not have been open to them. I think it gives a wrong very impression, like suddenly the reality of their lives has to be changed for the sake of political correctness. People's struggles should be remembered. The Holocaust is remembered so that it never happens again. Everybody's struggle should be remembered not sanitised. .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

But there isn't a lack of representation anymore, what have you been watching?

What have YOU been watching?

I'm so glad the industry can breathe a sigh of relief because Oliver said there isn't an issue.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

In terms of Oliver pretty much any if the characters EXCEPT Oliver himself could be non-white, as he turns out to be from a wealthy London family, and that's where it would start to not make sense given that wealth and privilege are sort of themes of the entire story.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

What have YOU been watching?

I'm so glad the industry can breathe a sigh of relief because Oliver said there isn't an issue.

I'd say there is increasingly better representation currently but it's very, VERY recently... Definitely not complete enough, and far too recent to be taken for granted. If the Trump era has taught us anything, it's that things that have taken decades to change can be changed back in a matter of months.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'd say there is increasingly better representation currently but it's very, VERY recently... Definitely not complete enough, and far too recent to be taken for granted. If the Trump era has taught us anything, it's that things that have taken decades to change can be changed back in a matter of months.

Couldn't agree more.

[Tom4784]

Shows like Victoria aren't exactly true to life representations so I don't think having a black person be a significant player in the show is a problem. Shows like Victoria are light entertainment after all.

Obviously if you want to put a focus on the racial aspects then it's important to cast appropriately but I don't really have a problem with period dramas as a whole racebending things.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In terms of Oliver pretty much any if the characters EXCEPT Oliver himself could be non-white, as he turns out to be from a wealthy London family, and that's where it would start to not make sense given that wealth and privilege are sort of themes of the entire story.

Plus his rich uncle possibly also Bumble and Courney, and the Sowerberrys

[James]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I went right off ScarJo when someone asked her in an interview if she had seen Infinity War and she said (in a non-joking way - she also knew nothing about the film or any of the characters other than her own) something like "lol no I have a life".

I mean I know plenty of people aren't into these sorts of films but honestly having a straight up dig at the millions of people that are writing your pay cheques?

There's a few MCU actors who are like this about the films and it's crappy . Much rather watch interviews with people like Tom Holland who are actually interested in / excited about the material.

Tom Holland should get her part in whatever this is .

I'd imagine a lot of the Marvel and comic-book actors think like that privately.

Originally Posted by Alf

Straight White Male flicks have always been in the minority in cinema, just that nobody was crying about it.

Nollywood, Bollywood, Hong Kong, Japan Ect, the representation of White men in their movies would give you a heart attack.

Hollywood used to be more favourable to films aimed at women than it is now. There was a time when dramas, including what they called 'women's pictures', were studios' biggest films.

Now the biggest films are comic-book / fantasy / big franchises, and they're trying to get women involved more (ie. kick-ass roles) for equality, and there is a backlash in some corners of the Internet - but I don't know how representative that is.