[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Let me add that to my list of excuses.

He threw the first punch but was defending himself. I cant get that one to work in my head.

Would he have thrown the first punch if they didn't come back and walk up to him?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Let me add that to my list of excuses.

He threw the first punch but was defending himself. I cant get that one to work in my head.

You will get there eventually.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Would he have thrown the first punch if they didn't come back and walk up to him?

He swung at them twice, once while one of them was getting off and then once at the other guy that swung back

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I incorrectly thought that Slim was inferring that MLK would have advocated for a more violent form of activism if he had had forewarning about things that would happen later, when from what I do know about the Civil Rights Movement I'm very much under the impression that he was well aware of how things were likely to go and made specific choices when it came to the rights and wrongs of violent retaliation, and the effects it would have.

I accept that that wasn't actually what Slim was saying and I misconstrued his post... but if I'm wrong in the above thinking then also let me know? I can admit that I don't know vast amounts about it.

You also implied his non violent approach was why he is respected as a great. It seemed a quite bizarre point to make because its absolute nonsense. You dont need to tell me you dont know much about it, I can tell.

We can go a few rounds more on this if you want and we'll see exactly how much you dont know. Not nice being talked down to is it?

[Oliver_W]

MLK would have experienced a lot worse than an old nutter raving on a bus, and he still supported a nonviolent approach!

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Would he have thrown the first punch if they didn't come back and walk up to him?

I'd like to know how you think girls in short skirts are 'provoking' but we'll stick to this. We'll never know if he'd have thrown that punch but he did throw it and that all that matters.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

You also implied his non violent approach was why he is respected as a great. It seemed a quite bizarre point to make because its absolute nonsense. You dont need to tell me you dont know much about it, I can tell.



We can go a few rounds more on this if you want and we'll see exactly how much you dont know. Not nice being talked down to is it?

Given that I just amicably admitted that I don't know huge amounts about it and expressed an interest in hearing more about it, I'm not sure why you chose to continue giving me a "revenge talking down to". Is it not nice? I'm not that bothered by it because I'm not taking it very seriously to be frank. You chose to continue being a huffy little boy about it and continue with the pointed (and failing) attempt to "give me a taste of my own medicine or something"... So no... I don't think we will "go a few more rounds of this". I will however read up on it elsewhere, from people who can discuss it without getting upset and trying to score points. I concede that you know more about it than me; but evidence suggests that you don't know anywhere near enough about it to actually learn anything about it from you, or perhaps, you don't have a genuine goal of teaching anyone about it. Either way I'm not interested in what you're selling, but your point has been taken.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Given that I just amicably admitted that I don't know huge amounts about it and expressed an interest in hearing more about it, I'm not sure why you chose to continue giving me a "revenge talking down to". Is it not nice? I'm not that bothered by it because I'm not taking it very seriously to be frank. You chose to continue being a huffy little boy about it and continue with the pointed (and failing) attempt to "give me a taste of my own medicine or something"... So no... I don't think we will "go a few more rounds of this". I will however read up on it elsewhere, from people who can discuss it without getting upset and trying to score points. I concede that you know more about it than me; but evidence suggests that you don't know anywhere near enough about it to actually learn anything about it from you, or perhaps, you don't have a genuine goal of teaching anyone about it. Either way I'm not interested in what you're selling, but your point has been taken.

Huffy? Your first few posts to me set the tone. You really need to work on that, especially when you dont know much on a subject. There is no 'take down' per se. You, like the geezer in the vid, started acting like a ...well lets not finish that thought...and I dont know where you thought it would get you. Perhaps you'd like to enlgihten us all as to why you take this tone on here

As for teaching. What are you saying, that I must teach you? Why cant find things out on your own? As it happens I dont mind having a discussion with anyone on this subject. I've been having them for decades. I've had these discussion with skinheads and BNP members. Please stop rating yourself and your opinions so highly.

[Beso]

We all rate our opinions highly..some are just better at versing those opinions, but the feelings are the same with every post we all make.

It's never nice to see 2 intelligent posters fall out a wee bit.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Huffy? Your first few posts to me set the tone. You really need to work on that, especially when you dont know much on a subject. There is no 'take down' per se. You, like the geezer in the vid, started acting like a ...well lets not finish that thought...and I dont know where you thought it would get you. Perhaps you'd like to enlgihten us all as to why you take this tone on here

As for teaching. What are you saying, that I must teach you? Why cant find things out on your own? As it happens I dont mind having a discussion with anyone on this subject. I've been having them for decades. I've had these discussion with skinheads and BNP members. Please stop rating yourself and your opinions so highly.

No, it is a "take down attempt" and you've demonstrated that again with your last sentence there. I do rate myself and my opinions highly, I do stand by everything I've said about the incident in the OP and I feel that I engaged with the thread thoughtfully and respectfully until people who weren't fans of what I had to say decided it was time to "take me down a peg". What I am embarrassed about is, firstly, engaging with it at all... And secondly, being drawn back in for more.

Enjoy the rest of your evening, Girth.

[GiRTh]

I will have a good evening after one more reply. I apolgise if you feel this was an attempted take down, it abolsutely wasnt and if you choose to not believe that then you further confirm much of what I said when I was being narky. I dont want to take you down . Please believe me and if you dont then you have some issues to address. Good day to you sir !!!

[Beso]

Can I ask a question?


What is a takedown? Where does it originate from?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Given that I just amicably admitted that I don't know huge amounts about it and expressed an interest in hearing more about it, I'm not sure why you chose to continue giving me a "revenge talking down to". Is it not nice? I'm not that bothered by it because I'm not taking it very seriously to be frank. You chose to continue being a huffy little boy about it and continue with the pointed (and failing) attempt to "give me a taste of my own medicine or something"... So no... I don't think we will "go a few more rounds of this". I will however read up on it elsewhere, from people who can discuss it without getting upset and trying to score points. I concede that you know more about it than me; but evidence suggests that you don't know anywhere near enough about it to actually learn anything about it from you, or perhaps, you don't have a genuine goal of teaching anyone about it. Either way I'm not interested in what you're selling, but your point has been taken.

Look how salty you get when someone challenges your intellect...now go back to the beginning of the thread and read your comments to Liam.

[Beso]

Telling people what to do is an ugly look, that's why everyone in the video is in the wrong in a certain way.

You have the old bloke, whose obviously very frustrated about something and feeling picked on and perhaps scared for his life if he reads the papers and is realistic and wise enough to know that he is in London and black youths carry knives..perhaps in his head it was like a custard last stand...obviously in his head, and mine ihe is trying to get 2 rowdy passengers off the bus, hence his idiotic mouthy outburst and flailing swing.

Then the youths standing thier moral ground, because of what he said, but overstepping the mark by double teaming an old man after trying to tell him to get off the bus.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Telling people what to do is an ugly look, that's why everyone in the video is in the wrong in a certain way.

You have the old bloke, whose obviously very frustrated about something and feeling picked on and perhaps scared for his life if he reads the papers and is realistic and wise enough to know that he is in London and black youths carry knives..perhaps in his head it was like a custard last stand...obviously in his head, and mine ihe is trying to get 2 rowdy passengers off the bus, hence his idiotic mouthy outburst and flailing swing.

Then the youths standing thier moral ground, because of what he said, but overstepping the mark by double teaming an old man after trying to tell him to get off the bus.

So its the black guys faults the were racially abused because they're black and should expect it? Wow

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Look how salty you get when someone challenges your intellect...now go back to the beginning of the thread and read your comments to Liam.

I'm allowed to stand my ground Kizzy, as is Liam, which I'm sure he's perfectly capable of doing if he chooses to. I'm not interested in engaging with you as a proxy .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

is realistic and wise enough to know that he is in London and black youths carry knives..

No, it's not wise to be racist, no matter how much you want it to be.

[user104658]

I can buy that he's fearful of them but only because an absolute tonne of racism is rooted in fear that's been fostered by xenophobic rhetoric (peer and press)... But it being literal xenophobia doesn't make him not racist. That is just an aspect of what being racist is.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by parmnion

that he is in London and black youths carry knives..perhaps in his head it was like a custard last stand..

Yeah, big cities are the last place you'd ever see a minority. Maybe he watched all ten seasons of Friends and assumed there wouldn't be any!

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Telling people what to do is an ugly look, that's why everyone in the video is in the wrong in a certain way.

You have the old bloke, whose obviously very frustrated about something and feeling picked on and perhaps scared for his life if he reads the papers and is realistic and wise enough to know that he is in London and black youths carry knives..perhaps in his head it was like a custard last stand...obviously in his head, and mine ihe is trying to get 2 rowdy passengers off the bus, hence his idiotic mouthy outburst and flailing swing.

Then the youths standing thier moral ground, because of what he said, but overstepping the mark by double teaming an old man after trying to tell him to get off the bus.

White youths carry knives too you know, it’s not just a thing black youths do.

[Ammi]

...I do think that this discussion has been such a lengthy and often quite heightened in emotion one etc...because it isn’t so black and white and there is much ‘grey’ with it..ideally, there would be no physical violence, obviously...but ideally also, there would be no such hateful prejudice still felt and voiced in 70 something years of life and life learning in someone in 2020...I also read in some reports that before the older guy had racially abused and called them monkeys and the N word, which can never be diminished or reduced with the label of ‘name calling’...that the younger guys had their hands/...or one of them had their hand on the holding pole to steady them as they ‘were standing room only‘ as it were...and the older guy had pushed the hand/hands off, which was the very first beginning of the leading up to../...incident...and the first ‘laying of hands on’, if it’s being reported correctly...I can’t imagine how it feels to ever be treated like that/to ever be treated in such a superior way as if you’re nothing at all...as if it was unpleasant in some way to physically be around you....on the whole, I don’t feel that violence is a ‘good answer’, but I do feel that sadly in some cases, it will become closer to an ‘inevitable’ or a likelihood and in the present day, much in society sadly seems to be getting closer and closer, rather than further and further as most of us would hope, from this type of abuse...and if and when that abuse happens, as with this incident... we have to consider in ‘judging’...well, we don’t have to but I personally do.. ...but then also what is the answer because I doubt there would ever be ‘the answer’ with someone who had lived so many years of life and still displayed such hatefulness...and in the judging of ‘applauding’ as it were...violence is never something that I personally would applaud but I think it is also a reaction to something quite hateful that sadly will be an inevitable or likelihood as well...


...as I’ve already said, I think...there is also very much ‘human’ to consider as well in judgement...and the psychology of human in reaction with this incident and in those moments...would possibly encompass also that what was provoking/abusing and physically pursuing right in front of them and what they were looking at etc...wasn’t an older man so much..it was hate...’pure hate attacking them verbally and possibly physically as well’...

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

White youths carry knives too you know, it’s not just a thing black youths do.

I am aware of that, but was the old man

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So its the black guys faults the were racially abused because they're black and should expect it? Wow

Whatever ya say naihm.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm allowed to stand my ground Kizzy, as is Liam, which I'm sure he's perfectly capable of doing if he chooses to. I'm not interested in engaging with you as a proxy .

We have already engaged about it several times earlier in the thread when you suggested his youth was preventing him from holding a reasoned opinion on the topic remember?

He did indeed stand his ground, you however have been stomping around the thread attempting to discredit his opinion and those of others. I notice you made a point of saying you rate yourself and your opinions highly.

You are coming across as sanctimonious here.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I can buy that he's fearful of them but only because an absolute tonne of racism is rooted in fear that's been fostered by xenophobic rhetoric (peer and press)... But it being literal xenophobia doesn't make him not racist. That is just an aspect of what being racist is.

Right... now imagine you've been the victim of that xenophobic rhetoric. Do you think that would or wouldn't impact on your responses as opposed to say...your responses?