[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Kate!

Boris has just given a massive 2 finger salute to poor Andy Burnham and all the citizens of Greater Manchester by giving them a paltry 22 million as opposed to the 60 he offered this lunchtime. Why couldn't he honour what he'd proposed?

Rat.

The sad thing is Kate is that the public will give him a second term as PM despite stuff like this.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

The sad thing is Kate is that the public will give him a second term as PM despite stuff like this.

...yeah I think so, Mock...I doubt that any significant change in leadership would happen during a pandemic time and we’re all with COVID for the foreseeable...the thing though would be...would he want to stay...other than to Brexit, he’s never felt that committed to me and obviously didn’t figure for his time to be what it is being...his main thing was get it done etc...

...anyways, of course...there would be a Boris vote again because it’s all politics and it’s all Manchester’s fault is the way the public have been led to believe...if only Manchester would do it like Boris and family...oh...

[bots]

i'm sorry, but there is no getting away from the simple fact that a significant proportion of the manchester population have not been social distancing. You cant catch covid if you social distance. So, people can blame the government all they like, but controlling the spread of the virus is up to the people of Manchester to sort out. If they had social distanced like they were told to, they wouldn't need to rely on the government to bail them out

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

The sad thing is Kate is that the public will give him a second term as PM despite stuff like this.

Yes very likely Mock.
Out of selfishness and possible heartlessness as sadly that's where it seems, particular parts of England have moved to have as their decisions with voting.

However, more people now again are losing their lives unnecessarily, the SAGE advice of a circuit breaker, would have prevented some deaths of loved ones now, and those to come in weeks ahead, from not doing a circuit breaker..
A circuit breaker would have reduced the likely hospital admissions too.
Across the Country.

Now to some in the Country, deaths of others loved ones are irrelevant and since they're elderly in the main, would have been likely to lose their lives anyway.
So there's no point in trying to reason with that fixed mindset.

These new unnecessary deaths come on top of the deaths previously brought about by this government's scandalous handling of PPE, testing and the Care homes disgrace.

Yet as you say, this deceitful dangerous PM will still get votes.
Even moreso now, with his dictatorial stance now.
I'm surprised he hasn't found a way to remove parliamentary authority and elections altogether.

Of course he has crushingly, 4 years left still.
Although I agree with Ammi, he may want out.
He has had his ambition of becoming PM and won an election.

The next one will be harder to win as he did in December 2019.
He won't want to be seen as on the way out..
He may well want out.
I wish he did, he's the worst PM in my view, we've ever had.
He's not up to the challenge and job at all.
Plus his hard-line, uncompromising and his lip service empathy is nauseating.

This offer was not stated as being still there, when he spoke yesterday.
Why did HE not say it was when asked???
Andy Burnham, who I'd believe any day of the week over this disgracefully deceitful PM.
Wants the offer in writing WITH ALL it's conditions detailed too.

So why won't the government do that???

This area of Greater Manchester is a mass of 2.8 million individuals, many of whom are people whose lives and livelihoods will be hit badly and cruelly.

This PM has at present lost the trust and even goodwill of a great number who had gone with him before.
Now he's kicked them in the teeth with his procrastinating, his deceit, his confusion on rules, which even he seemed to have no clue on, yet he had to approve them.

Then his pulling the plug on the right support that should be in place.
Totally out of line with his original, '' no one must lose out for doing the right thing''.
That's exciting what he's creating in Greater Manchester, it's not just Manchester city itself.

Yet as you say, the votes will likely see him win again.
Although not in the way he did last year.
There's ever growing numbers of those who've lost loved ones unnecessarily.
He REFUSES to meet those grieving loved ones too.

An inquiry I hope will expose the false charts, false statistics, the deceit and lies and especially the unnecessary deaths he and this detestable government allowed to come into play.

Which is why, I think Ammi has a point, he may not want to be around for all that coming about when the s..t hits the fan of the things HE and his government could have avoided, could have protected and caused to happen as losses of lives too of Care staff, the elderly and those with long term health conditions..
What a record, yet he claims success in dealing with this.

More deceit, sickeningly lip service and sheer hard-line heartlessness.

Yet, yes, there's those who won't give a damn about the losses of others loved ones lives as long as they haven't been affected.
What a sad, in my view, Country particularly England has become from a proportion of its voters.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Yes very likely Mock.
Out of selfishness and possible heartlessness as sadly that's where it seems, particular parts of England have moved to have as their decisions with voting.

However, more people now again are losing their lives unnecessarily, the SAGE advice of a circuit breaker, would have prevented some deaths of loved ones now, and those to come in weeks ahead, from not doing a circuit breaker..
A circuit breaker would have reduced the likely hospital admissions too.
Across the Country.

Now to some in the Country, deaths of others loved ones are irrelevant and since they're elderly in the main, would have been likely to lose their lives anyway.
So there's no point in trying to reason with that fixed mindset.

These new unnecessary deaths come on top of the deaths previously brought about by this government's scandalous handling of PPE, testing and the Care homes disgrace.

Yet as you say, this deceitful dangerous PM will still get votes.
Even moreso now, with his dictatorial stance now.
I'm surprised he hasn't found a way to remove parliamentary authority and elections altogether.

Of course he has crushingly, 4 years left still.
Although I agree with Ammi, he may want out.
He has had his ambition of becoming PM and won an election.

The next one will be harder to win as he did in December 2019.
He won't want to be seen as on the way out..
He may well want out.
I wish he did, he's the worst PM in my view, we've ever had.
He's not up to the challenge and job at all.
Plus his hard-line, uncompromising and his lip service empathy is nauseating.

This offer was not stated as being still there, when he spoke yesterday.
Why did HE not say it was when asked???
Andy Burnham, who I'd believe any day of the week over this disgracefully deceitful PM.
Wants the offer in writing WITH ALL it's conditions detailed too.

So why won't the government do that???

This area of Greater Manchester is a mass of 2.8 million individuals, many of whom are people whose lives and livelihoods will be hit badly and cruelly.

This PM has at present lost the trust and even goodwill of a great number who had gone with him before.
Now he's kicked them in the teeth with his procrastinating, his deceit, his confusion on rules, which even he seemed to have no clue on, yet he had to approve them.

Then his pulling the plug on the right support that should be in place.
Totally out of line with his original, '' no one must lose out for doing the right thing''.
That's exciting what he's creating in Greater Manchester, it's not just Manchester city itself.

Yet as you say, the votes will likely see him win again.
Although not in the way he did last year.
There's ever growing numbers of those who've lost loved ones unnecessarily.
He REFUSES to meet those grieving loved ones too.

An inquiry I hope will expose the false charts, false statistics, the deceit and lies and especially the unnecessary deaths he and this detestable government allowed to come into play.

Which is why, I think Ammi has a point, he may not want to be around for all that coming about when the s..t hits the fan of the things HE and his government could have avoided, could have protected and caused to happen as losses of lives too of Care staff, the elderly and those with long term health conditions..
What a record, yet he claims success in dealing with this.

More deceit, sickeningly lip service and sheer hard-line heartlessness.

Yet, yes, there's those who won't give a damn about the losses of others loved ones lives as long as they haven't been affected.
What a sad, in my view, Country particularly England has become from a proportion of its voters.

Jonathan Van Tam confirmed in the briefing yesterday that a circuit breaker makes no sense for people in areas of low infection, so for people living in parts of Norfolk and Cornwall, Pembrokshire and other areas like that, it makes no sense at all

He did say the offer was still there, he said they had to be fair to Liverpool and Lancashire and offer a similar amount of funding, it was superseded by the tweet showing Andy getting the news on someones phone, so that seems to have been what stuck rather than what was actually being said

ICU bed capacity in Manchester is at a dangerous level that is the takeway we should have from this, and yes that will unfortunatley translate to unnecessary deaths

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Jonathan Van Tam confirmed in the briefing yesterday that a circuit breaker makes no sense for people in areas of low infection, so for people living in parts of Norfolk and Cornwall, Pembrokshire and other areas like that, it makes no sense at all

He did say the offer was still there, he said they had to be fair to Liverpool and Lancashire and offer a similar amount of funding, it was superseded by the tweet showing Andy getting the news on someones phone, so that seems to have been what stuck rather than what was actually being said

ICU bed capacity in Manchester is at a dangerous level that is the takeway we should have from this, and yes that will unfortunatley translate to unnecessary deaths

Sorry, you and I will never agree on that.
Way over half of England is in restrictions.
If more areas go in as they will as the government is looking at other areas to do the same now.

The science called for a circuit breaker, Chris Whity stated there was no certainty tier 3 restrictions would be enough either.

The Country is either all in this together or it's not .the virus knows no borders.
Those areas aren't hit YET.

The attitudes of them in we're alright jack, the rest of you get on with it and suffer.
Sounds frankly awful.

What figure did Johnson state in the press conference.
When asked if the offer of 60 million was still there, he DIDN'T answer.
No way did he.
All he revealed was 22 million.
Why, if it was still there.
I say again.
He took over, he imposed tier 3 without agreement, he could have announced that 60 million at the same time.
He didn't, WHY,??
He would be imposing the tier 3, giving 22 million but NOT the 60 million.
Pure deceit in my view, not yours, certainly my view however.

Liverpool has a vastly lower population than the 2.8 million residents of Greater Manchester too.
Anyway, I know who I'd trust.
You can rust Johnson's word.
That's your right but I never ever will.

Even if I'd lost no one to this virus, his handling of this and the Greater Manchester issue too.
I'd have thought catastrophic.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Sorry, you and I will never agree on that.
Way over half of England is in restrictions.
If more areas go in as they will as the government is looking at other areas to do the same now.

The science called for a circuit breaker, Chris Whity stated there was no certainty tier 3 restrictions would be enough either.

The Country is either all in this together or it's not .the virus knows no borders.
Those areas aren't hit YET.

The attitudes of them in we're alright jack, the rest of you get on with it and suffer.
Sounds frankly awful.

What figure did Johnson state in the press conference.
When asked if the offer of 60 million was still there, he DIDN'T answer.
No way did he.
All he revealed was 22 million.
Why, if it was still there.
I say again.
He took over, he imposed tier 3 without agreement, he could have announced that 60 million at the same time.
He didn't, WHY,??
He would be imposing the tier 3, giving 22 million but NOT the 60 million.
Pure deceit in my view, not yours, certainly my view however.

Liverpool has a vastly lower population than the 2.8 million residents of Greater Manchester too.
Anyway, I know who I'd trust.
You can rust Johnson's word.
That's your right but I never ever will.

Even if I'd lost no one to this virus, his handling of this and the Greater Manchester issue too.
I'd have thought catastrophic.

The areas are hit YET exactly so why lock then down when there is no need to?

Some areas will never be hit badly purely due to their social make up and and population density

Personally I think Gt Man is beyond Tier 3 and should be locked down at this stage, everything closed including schools

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The areas are hit YET exactly so why lock then down when there is no need to?

Some areas will never be hit badly purely due to their social make up and and population density

Personally I think Gt Man is beyond Tier 3 and should be locked down at this stage, everything closed including schools

As I said.
You and I don't and will.never agree with this.

The science advice on September 21st was to do a circuit breaker across the Country.

That would have brought down infection rates, hospital admissions and yes deaths of loved one too unnecessarily, ( not that that's much of a consideration of government at present with no real official support or protection for those who want it who are most vulnerable to deaths).

That was the advice.
This PM rejected it.

Ask the science why they felt all areas should have been In a circuit breaker from their advice in I'd have taken that advice.
You wouldn't because some areas aren't yet as badly hit as others.

I'll stick with they should have taken the advice in September, to save infections, hospital admissions and unnecessary deaths too

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Sorry, you and I will never agree on that.
Way over half of England is in restrictions.
If more areas go in as they will as the government is looking at other areas to do the same now.

The science called for a circuit breaker, Chris Whity stated there was no certainty tier 3 restrictions would be enough either.

The Country is either all in this together or it's not .the virus knows no borders.
Those areas aren't hit YET.

The attitudes of them in we're alright jack, the rest of you get on with it and suffer.
Sounds frankly awful.

What figure did Johnson state in the press conference.
When asked if the offer of 60 million was still there, he DIDN'T answer.
No way did he.
All he revealed was 22 million.
Why, if it was still there.
I say again.
He took over, he imposed tier 3 without agreement, he could have announced that 60 million at the same time.
He didn't, WHY,??
He would be imposing the tier 3, giving 22 million but NOT the 60 million.
Pure deceit in my view, not yours, certainly my view however.

Liverpool has a vastly lower population than the 2.8 million residents of Greater Manchester too.
Anyway, I know who I'd trust.
You can rust Johnson's word.
That's your right but I never ever will.

Even if I'd lost no one to this virus, his handling of this and the Greater Manchester issue too.
I'd have thought catastrophic.

Excellent post Joey agree with all of that. What I can't understand is why there's suddenly a need for negotiations? Surely they are aware of requirements as they have that info from the initial lockdown. How can there be 'offers' to be accepted or rejected.
This isn't some shady backstreet deal, it's the PM's job to ensure continuity of business and services. If you are going to segregate swathes of the country there has to be some concrete contingency planning.
Is it not Sunaks remit to use some kind of formulae to work out what is needed based on population? This carrot and stick approach is crazy.