[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

btw my smoker mate Jem, 58, overweight, drinks like a fish pal who had covid said his cold last year was far worse

is fine now, small cough for a few days

a good friend of mine in good health and not old just passed away from it, so please stop minimising the seriousness of the virus, it's insensitive and distasteful

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

a good friend of mine in good health and not old just passed away from it, so please stop minimising the seriousness of the virus, it's insensitive and distasteful

what i posted was factual. by saying your example is better than mine as its is more grave is misleading and adds to the hysteria


please do not put your take on my intentions

i drove to work and it was fine

omg my dad died in a car crash how dare you suggest driving is safe

NO

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Interesting...we’re in Gtr Manchester and haven’t noticed any change in the traffic and I don’t know anyone who’s off work as happened in the first lockdown .


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I think its more that the pubs have been shut. I work in recruitment and a lot of my clients have reverted to working from home. I travel on the M60 every day and whilst it's not like the first lockdown, the traffic is lighter than it was

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

a good friend of mine in good health and not old just passed away from it, so please stop minimising the seriousness of the virus, it's insensitive and distasteful

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what i posted was factual. by saying your example is better than mine as its is more grave is misleading and adds to the hysteria


please do not put your take on my intentions

i drove to work and it was fine

omg my dad died in a car crash how dare you suggest driving is safe

NO

As much as it pains me to say it; LT's logic is actually sound, here. Isolated examples of healthy younger people dying happen but are very rare (usually an extreme immune response rather than the respiratory failure that kills older people) and those rare examples don't change the facts of the illness, much as LT says, just like a car wreck (or even a 20 car pile-up) on the motorway doesn't mean that driving on the motorway is suddenly more dangerous.

Covid deaths are 80% in the over-75's, and the VAST majority of deaths under 65 involve a complicating condition of some description (usually heart, lung, immune disorder or diabetes).

Those are just the statistical facts. I know it doesn't necessarily make it less scary, nor does it lessen the impact of any death, but the numbers are what they are. Unbiased, non-political fact.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I think its more that the pubs have been shut. I work in recruitment and a lot of my clients have reverted to working from home. I travel on the M60 every day and whilst it's not like the first lockdown, the traffic is lighter than it was

The official stats showed the traffic had reduced by just 3% since this lockdown started ... I was in a flaming gridlock going to work ( high school) the other morning on an A road at around 7.50 am


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[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

As much as it pains me to say it; LT's logic is actually sound, here. Isolated examples of healthy younger people dying happen but are very rare (usually an extreme immune response rather than the respiratory failure that kills older people) and those rare examples don't change the facts of the illness, much as LT says, just like a car wreck (or even a 20 car pile-up) on the motorway doesn't mean that driving on the motorway is suddenly more dangerous.

Covid deaths are 80% in the over-75's, and the VAST majority of deaths under 65 involve a complicating condition of some description (usually heart, lung, immune disorder or diabetes).

Those are just the statistical facts. I know it doesn't necessarily make it less scary, nor does it lessen the impact of any death, but the numbers are what they are. Unbiased, non-political fact.

thank you Ts

brave. using logic. swimming against an easier tide.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Zizu

The official stats showed the traffic had reduced by just 3% since this lockdown started ... I was in a flaming gridlock going to work ( high school) the other morning on an A road at around 7.50 am


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Ah, my main journey is the motorway and what used to take 40 mins in October now takes 30. I honestly haven't been in a traffic jam since the start of this whole thing and before I used to spend over 2 hours a day in traffic.

The figures are showing that our numbers are reducing....that's great news at the moment. Just hope it continues. Our R rate is also below 1 so the numbers should keep dropping as long as we keep up adhering to the rules.

[joeysteele]

Not that it matters to those who will only belittle this virus as next to nothing.

I've lost 4 to this virus.
That doesn't matter to statistics or anything or anyone else who didn't know them.

They're not just numbers to those loved ones who've lost them.

NONE of them would have lost their lives over this last year.
Except for this detestable virus.

2 of them were NOT elderly either.
One was in their 30s, a Nurse who left a young family behind.
Those are facts I KNOW and WITNESSED.
So I don't give a jot for statistics or diminishing the seriousness of this hateful virus

It's great to read of those who get it and suffer nothing of real note.
For thousands of others however that isn't the case at all.
Which leaves anything from hundreds to possibly a great deal more, left devastated and crushed from the loss of those loved ones, family,friends, neighbours even work colleagues.
That's the other fact from those who thankfully got over this with few or no ongoing problems.

Both facts fully valid too.
I wish I could be able to be on here and say I had 4 loved ones who got this but had little to no problems with it.

That's great for those who can.
Sadly, I've no chance of that as all 4 were lives were lost, before their time too.
Only gone because of covid.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Ah, my main journey is the motorway and what used to take 40 mins in October now takes 30. I honestly haven't been in a traffic jam since the start of this whole thing and before I used to spend over 2 hours a day in traffic.



The figures are showing that our numbers are reducing....that's great news at the moment. Just hope it continues. Our R rate is also below 1 so the numbers should keep dropping as long as we keep up adhering to the rules.

We can but hope ..

Sounds like me and you are abiding my the rules so that’s a start



Stay safe !!


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[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Not that it matters to those who will only belittle this virus as next to nothing.

I've lost 4 to this virus.
That doesn't matter to statistics or anything or anyone else who didn't know them.

They're not just numbers to those loved ones who've lost them.

NONE of them would have lost their lives over this last year.
Except for this detestable virus.

2 of them were NOT elderly either.
One was in their 30s, a Nurse who left a young family behind.
Those are facts I KNOW and WITNESSED.
So I don't give a jot for statistics or diminishing the seriousness of this hateful virus

It's great to read of those who get it and suffer nothing of real note.
For thousands of others however that isn't the case at all.
Which leaves anything from hundreds to possibly a great deal more, left devastated and crushed from the loss of those loved ones, family,friends, neighbours even work colleagues.
That's the other fact from those who thankfully got over this with few or no ongoing problems.

Both facts fully valid too.
I wish I could be able to be on here and say I had 4 loved ones who got this but had little to no problems with it.

That's great for those who can.
Sadly, I've no chance of that as all 4 were lives were lost, before their time too.
Only gone because of covid.

I'm not saying that any death isn't a tragedy Joey, obviously deaths of older people and people with underlying conditions doesn't make those deaths OK or any easier on those close to them, but I don't think pretending that Covid is equally risky across the board makes anyone take it more seriously, nor does it help those who are vulnerable to it. I don't think we have to pretend that the facts are anything other than they are. It doesn't equate to a lack of empathy.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Zizu

We can but hope ..

Sounds like me and you are abiding my the rules so that’s a start



Stay safe !!


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Aw you too.....I have followed the rules to the letter, I haven't been in a pub, eaten out or even had a takeaway since March. My Dad is in the high risk group and if I want to see him I need to be good (although my son has been a close contact at school 3 times now)

You stay safe, we will all be through this soon.

Xx

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

its an example what example can you provide from your life?

please share as i id?

I know someone who died from it

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not saying that any death isn't a tragedy Joey, obviously deaths of older people and people with underlying conditions doesn't make those deaths OK or any easier on those close to them, but I don't think pretending that Covid is equally risky across the board makes anyone take it more seriously, nor does it help those who are vulnerable to it. I don't think we have to pretend that the facts are anything other than they are. It doesn't equate to a lack of empathy.

As to those who get it, who don't know they have it, have no symptoms or next to none.
That virus remains a more than severe threat to others who would be massively put at risk from it.

In your statistics how many people got it, elderly or with other conditions actually got it from others much younger who had it I wonder.

It is risky across the board if those younger pass it on to those much older.
There's another fact.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

I know someone who died from it

Sorry to hear that. Scarlett, very much so.

I won't pry, I just hope all connected to the lost loved one, as family or friends are alright.

I doubt I'll ever erase the trauma I found myself in on my 4 losses.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Sorry to hear that. Scarlett, very much so.

I won't pry, I just hope all connected to the lost loved one, as family or friends are alright.

I doubt I'll ever erase the trauma I found myself in on my 4 losses.

Their partner caught it at the same time, and thankfully survived, I hate this virus so much and cant wait for the day when it is gone for good

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

Their partner caught it at the same time, and thankfully survived, I hate this virus so much and cant wait for the day when it is gone for good

Me too, desperately so.

Thank you for sharing that Scarlett.

[arista]

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

As much as it pains me to say it; LT's logic is actually sound, here. Isolated examples of healthy younger people dying happen but are very rare (usually an extreme immune response rather than the respiratory failure that kills older people) and those rare examples don't change the facts of the illness, much as LT says, just like a car wreck (or even a 20 car pile-up) on the motorway doesn't mean that driving on the motorway is suddenly more dangerous.

Covid deaths are 80% in the over-75's, and the VAST majority of deaths under 65 involve a complicating condition of some description (usually heart, lung, immune disorder or diabetes).

Those are just the statistical facts. I know it doesn't necessarily make it less scary, nor does it lessen the impact of any death, but the numbers are what they are. Unbiased, non-political fact.

I don't believe that logic is that sound tbh... It's been strongly suggested there are 2 strains with one more aggressive than the other affecting younger healthy people too, there is also ' long covid' which may or may not be yet another strain. Neither should be downplayed as just an anomaly.
Repeating as you do regularly that it is primarily the elderly affected is not helpful, 1/5 of all deaths is still a considerable amount of people.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't believe that logic is that sound tbh... It's been strongly suggested there are 2 strains with one more aggressive than the other affecting younger healthy people too, there is also ' long covid' which may or may not be yet another strain. Neither should be downplayed as just an anomaly.
Repeating as you do regularly that it is primarily the elderly affected is not helpful, 1/5 of all deaths is still a considerable amount of people.

Absolutely right Kizzy.
Also I say again, those younger who have it are also in part infecting those much older or with other health conditions.

Just throwing it out as an elderly risk is wrong too.

Look at the health workers, yes, workers of all ages who have lost their lives to covid.

Numbers of deaths or percentages in relation to the population are just dismissing the real fact that there are thousands who have lost their lives over the last 9 months who shouldn't have.
For a number ofvteasons,.

Lives lost unnecessarily too.

It's REALLY like an attitude of so what it's only the elderly who will end up dying from it.

I have my own grievances on this issue as I know every one of the 4 people, yes PEOPLE, living human beings, who I've lost from my life, that NONE of them without covid happening would have lost their lives these last months.

Easy to just dismiss deaths as fractions or percentages.
It is nevertheless the fact these are loved ones of multi thousands of others.
It makes me mad.
Even moreso when for the 4 I've lost, I know they were avoidable deaths where they were put at unacceptable and dangerous risk.
Hence my distrust and fury at this totally inept and useless PM with his government too.

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Not that it matters to those who will only belittle this virus as next to nothing.

I've lost 4 to this virus.
That doesn't matter to statistics or anything or anyone else who didn't know them.

They're not just numbers to those loved ones who've lost them.

NONE of them would have lost their lives over this last year.
Except for this detestable virus.

2 of them were NOT elderly either.
One was in their 30s, a Nurse who left a young family behind.
Those are facts I KNOW and WITNESSED.
So I don't give a jot for statistics or diminishing the seriousness of this hateful virus

It's great to read of those who get it and suffer nothing of real note.
For thousands of others however that isn't the case at all.
Which leaves anything from hundreds to possibly a great deal more, left devastated and crushed from the loss of those loved ones, family,friends, neighbours even work colleagues.
That's the other fact from those who thankfully got over this with few or no ongoing problems.

Both facts fully valid too.
I wish I could be able to be on here and say I had 4 loved ones who got this but had little to no problems with it.

That's great for those who can.
Sadly, I've no chance of that as all 4 were lives were lost, before their time too.
Only gone because of covid.

I totally agree with you Joey

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't believe that logic is that sound tbh... It's been strongly suggested there are 2 strains with one more aggressive than the other affecting younger healthy people too, there is also ' long covid' which may or may not be yet another strain. Neither should be downplayed as just an anomaly.

Repeating as you do regularly that it is primarily the elderly affected is not helpful, 1/5 of all deaths is still a considerable amount of people.

I'll go with what's shown in the statistics and verified facts rather than theories in the press thankyou Kizzy, and I don't particularly feel the need to apologise for that. It is helpful to have a realistic perspective on who is most likely to be affected, so that we can prioritise shielding, treatment, and the order in which any vaccine should be delivered.

[Nicky91]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/1...ps-below-2000/

Netherlands: hospital covid patients total dips below 2.000

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/1...are-the-rules/

face masks will become compulsory in netherlands from December 1st

[joeysteele]

I'm reminded of the saying that goes, 'there are lies, damned lies and statistics'.

Statistics can be made to say and present anything anyone, particularly those in power, want them to look like.

Again all can be affected by this virus.
However those catching who are elderly or more vulnerable from it, from those younger who don't even know they have or have had it.

The losing their lives is connected to those who helped inadvertently infecting them.

Well, there's NO statistics for that no matter how hard people try to deflect the seriousness and devastating losses of loved ones, others have suffered.
Yes, suffered.

[Toy Soldier]

No one is trying to deflect the seriousness of it. I can appreciate that this is a highly emotional subject for many people, for many very good reasons... However, that's not really a debate or understanding of Covid-19 itself, rather a discussion about the individual and emotional impact of the pandemic.

Not that I'm against those discussions being had - but for me personally, that's not what I'm in this thread for, so I'm not going to enter into an emotive argument whilst trying to discuss the facts. I'll just steer away from commenting on the more emotive posts but I'm not going to promise that I'll stop correcting information that I think is flawed - specifically because I think too much emotionally charged anecdotal information is actually damaging to the emotional wellbeing of many people, and is worth tempering for that reason. I feel for everyone who has lost someone in this pandemic, but I don't find it a valid reason that they should be allowed to send other people off on panic-spirals unchecked.

So I'm not going to continue to argue about this, because it isn't sitting well with me.

However as a final thought, I do personally think the conversations should be separated. That's not my decision, though.

[Strictly Jake]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

its an example what example can you provide from your life?

please share as i id?

One of my best friends mum is in a care home and has covid. She has had it for 5 weeks now and is getting more poorly. 12 people in that care home have died from it. Theres an example. Dont know why some refuse to take it seriously