[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Does your boss control your home life and seize your keys and passport? I think not. Another strawman argument. Not an easy concept to grasp for some, it seems.

Proof that they controlled her home life?
They didn't 'seize' her passport. They keep all the royals passports for security reasons, which they obviously released for all those trips and holidays.

And I would like you to acknowledge this reply to the accusations you threw at me about mental health instead of ignoring it....

....and Dezzy, you are making a lot of assumptions there....show me a post where I said I doubted her mental health issues - even if I did, I wouldn't say so. I HAVE doubted very much that she was refused help, said so, and still do.
So get your facts right before you start lecturing people on things they haven't said.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Proof that they controlled her home life?
They didn't 'seize' her passport. They keep all the royals passports for security reasons, which they obviously released for all those trips and holidays.

And I would like you to acknowledge this reply to the accusations you threw at me about mental health instead of ignoring it....

....and Dezzy, you are making a lot of assumptions there....show me a post where I said I doubted her mental health issues - even if I did, I wouldn't say so. I HAVE doubted very much that she was refused help, said so, and still do.
So get your facts right before you start lecturing people on things they haven't said.

More strawman arguments.

If someone is holding your passport, they ultimately control it. Again, not a hard concept to grasp. Regardless of the reason, she didn't hold her own passport and would have to go ask for it, any other person would not have to do the same.

You've branded her a liar several times, you've disregarded her words and belittled them at every opportunity. You bring up Africa a lot when she spoke about her own difficulties. You obviously don't believe her struggles and seek to undermine them. I don't need to point out one post, all your posts are similar in that regard and no amount of strawmans will change that.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

More strawman arguments.



If someone is holding your passport, they ultimately control it. Again, not a hard concept to grasp. Regardless of the reason, she didn't hold her own passport and would have to go ask for it, any other person would not have to do the same.



You've branded her a liar several times, you've disregarded her words and belittled them at every opportunity. You bring up Africa a lot when she spoke about her own difficulties. You obviously don't believe her struggles and seek to undermine them. I don't need to point out one post, all your posts are similar in that regard and no amount of strawmans will change that.

Honestly, as if the people saying these things - if their employer came up to them and said "we need to keep your passport and other official documents in the safe here at work for security reasons" - wouldn't tell them to **** right off.

Or maybe they wouldn't?? I suppose that would explain a lot of the issues with this discussion because I simply can't comprehend that mindset.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Honestly, as if the people saying these things - if their employer came up to them and said "we need to keep your passport and other official documents in the safe here at work for security reasons" - wouldn't tell them to **** right off.

Or maybe they wouldn't?? I suppose that would explain a lot of the issues with this discussion because I simply can't comprehend that mindset.

'One rule for thee, another for me.' Basically.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Honestly, as if the people saying these things - if their employer came up to them and said "we need to keep your passport and other official documents in the safe here at work for security reasons" - wouldn't tell them to **** right off.

Or maybe they wouldn't?? I suppose that would explain a lot of the issues with this discussion because I simply can't comprehend that mindset.

I think that would be because the royals need careful security protection and Jimmy who works in the chippy doesn't?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jet

I think that would be because the royals need careful security protection and Jimmy who works in the chippy doesn't?

The reasons for it are irrelevant when discussion whether or not it has an impact on someone perception of their own freedom; I assume there are valid security reasons for it but that doesn't mean it doesn't feel trapping, and that someone who has realised that they feel trapped by it might want to leave.

But I know the stock response to this is, "Well she should have realised what she was getting into/Harry should have done a better job of explaining it to her" but that's "captain hindsight" stuff and it's not "immoral" to get into situations that you find yourself hating because of getting carried away in the excitement/lack of information. Nor is it immoral to then want to leave that situation.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The reasons for it are irrelevant when discussion whether or not it has an impact on someone perception of their own freedom; I assume there are valid security reasons for it but that doesn't mean it doesn't feel trapping, and that someone who has realised that they feel trapped by it might want to leave.

But I know the stock response to this is, "Well she should have realised what she was getting into/Harry should have done a better job of explaining it to her" but that's "captain hindsight" stuff and it's not "immoral" to get into situations that you find yourself hating because of getting carried away in the excitement/lack of information. Nor is it immoral to then want to leave that situation.

No, not my response. I don't need to scrape the barrel for reasons to justify what I've said about this 'I was trapped' nonsense. I'll leave the barrel scraping to others.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jet

No, not my response. I don't need to scrape the barrel for reasons to justify what I've said about this 'I was trapped' nonsense. I'll leave the barrel scraping to others.

You mean if you scrape the barrel any further you'll start a tunnel to Australia, jet.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

More strawman arguments.

If someone is holding your passport, they ultimately control it. Again, not a hard concept to grasp. Regardless of the reason, she didn't hold her own passport and would have to go ask for it, any other person would not have to do the same.

You've branded her a liar several times, you've disregarded her words and belittled them at every opportunity. You bring up Africa a lot when she spoke about her own difficulties. You obviously don't believe her struggles and seek to undermine them. I don't need to point out one post, all your posts are similar in that regard and no amount of strawmans will change that.

I have never said I disbelieved her about the struggles she spoke of in Africa. I have always said it was the wrong time and place to bring them up. You can strawman and strawman until the cows come home in every post but what you won't do is admit you were wrong.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by jet

I have never said I disbelieved her about the struggles she spoke of in Africa. I have always said it was the wrong time and place to bring them up. You can strawman and strawman until the cows come home in every post but what you won't do is admit you were wrong.

You undermine everything she says and does. I see how you didn’t respond to that bit of Dezzys post.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

You undermine everything she says and does. I see how you didn’t respond to that bit of Dezzys post.

Pot Kettle Black...on both accounts.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Pot Kettle Black...on both accounts.

Who have I undermined?

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Who have I undermined?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

More strawman arguments.

If someone is holding your passport, they ultimately control it. Again, not a hard concept to grasp. Regardless of the reason, she didn't hold her own passport and would have to go ask for it, any other person would not have to do the same.

You've branded her a liar several times, you've disregarded her words and belittled them at every opportunity. You bring up Africa a lot when she spoke about her own difficulties. You obviously don't believe her struggles and seek to undermine them. I don't need to point out one post, all your posts are similar in that regard and no amount of strawmans will change that.

That was an eye opener when Meghan said all that, i could never imagine doing all that. Must of made her feel more trapped.

But really when we think about it , once they're apart of the royals they've basically given up their regular life pretty much . Which must be a daunting experience.