[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The propensity of large unelected and unaccountable institutions to defend
themselves from critical scrutiny by simply denying responsibility is well
attested in history. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Cold War-era dissident
author, wrote a short story entitled We Never Make Mistakes to capture this
tendency.

The EU is not a brutal dictatorship like the Soviet Union, but it exhibits a
similar refusal to admit to errors, a self-delusion made even harder to accept
because it is usually accompanied by a sanctimonious insistence that it is
always acting in the best interests of everyone.

This was apparent during the Brexit negotiations, but such was the
controversy caused in this country by the decision to leave the EU that many
Remainers sided with Brussels on almost every issue. Yet even its most
diehard champions must find the extraordinary shenanigans of recent days
hard to fathom, let alone excuse.

On the BBC’s Andrew Marr programme, Mairead McGuinness, the EU finance
commissioner, brooked no criticism of the way the bloc has handled the
vaccine rollout, despite the mess apparent to everyone. While the UK has
inoculated almost half of the adult population, the best any major continental
country has managed is one in 10.

But Ms McGuinness said all the difficulties were someone else’s fault and
denied that unjustified doubts about the safety of the AstraZeneca vaccine
had contributed to a growing hesitancy to take the jab in many EU countries.


This is a major problem because there is a surge in cases on the continent.


In order to rectify an error it is first necessary to admit to one, and yet
Brussels remains unwilling to do so. The outrageous threat to ban exports of
vaccines to the UK, in breach of contractual agreements and intellectual
property rights, raises a whole host of implications.

The failure to vaccinate also risks wrecking Mediterranean tourism for
another summer, since it is clear that no one from the UK will be allowed to
travel there while Covid cases remain high.

As Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary, said on Sunday, a grown-up
approach would seek to maximise vaccine production for everyone, but
mature assessment is not much in evidence in Brussels. At a summit later
this week to sort out this serious crisis, which has consequences beyond the
EU’s borders, some sane and sensible voices need to be heard.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...ine-delusions/

and again more fingerpointing towards the EU

of course USA, UK have a better rollout, the elite countries


we are doing ok, and we have our rights to not fully trust AZ

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

and again more fingerpointing towards the EU

of course USA, UK have a better rollout, the elite countries


we are doing ok, and we have our rights to not fully trust AZ

then EU roll out is a disaster and now you are getting a 3rd wave

[Cherie]

Some countries have also put the economy before health and are now paying the price.

Given deaths are baked in when infections rise, I would imagine Frances' death toll will rocket, given they had 35,000 new infections in one day unfortunately, .

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Given deaths are baked in when infections rise, I would imagine Frances' death toll will rocket, given they had 35,000 new infections in one day unfortunately, .

IN THEORY that depends how much of the small proportion they have vaccinated are elderly/vulnerable, the death rate should (again, in theory) be significantly less in proportion to infection rate than pre-vaccine. e.g. if 50% of over-70's are vaccinated you'd expect deaths to be 40%-or-so lower "per 1000 infected" than in previous waves.

In theory.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

of course USA, UK have a better rollout, the elite countries

I wouldn't say "elite", maybe "elitist" but I do think there's a stark illustration in all of the Covid stuff when it comes to the actors on The Global Stage. A lot is said about countries being "more equal" with Globalisation etc. in recent years, the end of Empire, etc. but when the **** hits the fan it's the same countries as ever who are first into the lifeboats. I think it shows that little has really changed in any meaningful way. Vaccines happened and the US and UK shot off ahead of the pack. Don't get me wrong I'm grateful to be one of "the lucky few" but it doesn't go unnoticed or without thought that I as a healthy 35 year old male at no realistic Covid risk am within the first 5% of the global population to get a vaccine... and my wife was in the first 0.5%.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

IN THEORY that depends how much of the small proportion they have vaccinated are elderly/vulnerable, the death rate should (again, in theory) be significantly less in proportion to infection rate than pre-vaccine. e.g. if 50% of over-70's are vaccinated you'd expect deaths to be 40%-or-so lower "per 1000 infected" than in previous waves.

In theory.

That is my point, very few have been vaccinated where are you getting that 50% of over 70s have been vaccinated in France?

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I wouldn't say "elite", maybe "elitist" but I do think there's a stark illustration in all of the Covid stuff when it comes to the actors on The Global Stage. A lot is said about countries being "more equal" with Globalisation etc. in recent years, the end of Empire, etc. but when the **** hits the fan it's the same countries as ever who are first into the lifeboats. I think it shows that little has really changed in any meaningful way. Vaccines happened and the US and UK shot off ahead of the pack. Don't get me wrong I'm grateful to be one of "the lucky few" but it doesn't go unnoticed or without thought that I as a healthy 35 year old male at no realistic Covid risk am within the first 5% of the global population to get a vaccine... and my wife was in the first 0.5%.

remember that across europe they were not vaccinating any elderly with AZ and the quantity of pfizer was next to zero and they have a lot of remote regions that they couldnt get pfizer too ... they really have ****ed up

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That is my point, very few have been vaccinated where are you getting that 50% of over 70s have been vaccinated in France?

"e.g." means "example".

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

"e.g." means "example".

what do I need an example for, the little lady here knows how it works

the bottom line is more infections will mean more deaths, as the vaccination roll out has been slow

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

what do I need an example for, the little lady here knows how it works

You asked where he got the figure from. As an example, it wasn't an actual figure.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That is my point, very few have been vaccinated where are you getting that 50% of over 70s have been vaccinated in France?

You will notice that I said "in theory" 3 times in that post.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

then EU roll out is a disaster and now you are getting a 3rd wave

yeah so

we are doing the best we can

3rd wave was always just inevitable, we'll also get a 4th wave, and a 5th wave likely

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

what do I need an example for, the little lady here knows how it works

the bottom line is more infections will mean more deaths, as the vaccination roll out has been slow

no, not necessarily

since we don't know the age group in the new surge of infections

since healthy younger people don't die of covid

[Nicky91]

Netherlands todays numbers

6.340 new cases (lower than average)

167 new hospitalisations (2.193 in total)

50 new ICU patients (638 in total)

15 new deaths

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

no, not necessarily

since we don't know the age group in the new surge of infections

since healthy younger people don't die of covid

It equated to more deaths here as young people transfer the virus to their older family members, don’t think the disease works differently in France

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It equated to more deaths here as young people transfer the virus to their older family members, don’t think the disease works differently in France

true, fair points made

so we just need to shield elderly and most vulnerable some more, this is how you also can bring numbers down

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

true, fair points made

so we just need to shield elderly and most vulnerable some more, this is how you also can bring numbers down

That was true a year ago, now vaccination is the key before the bloody thing mutates out of control again

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That was true a year ago, now vaccination is the key before the bloody thing mutates out of control again

no since u cannot force people to vaccinate, it should always remain people's own choice

but tbh as long as you vaccinate the elderly and more vulnerable risk groups then its ok

[arista]

Monday 22/3/21

Today 17 Died

5,342 have caught Covid-19

Patients in hospital
Latest available
6,162

Patients on ventilation
Latest available
830


126,172 Total UK Deaths


https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

true, fair points made

so we just need to shield elderly and most vulnerable some more, this is how you also can bring numbers down

How do yu fancy a decade of being shut in , you won't be safe unvaccinated.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Monday 22/3/21

Today 17 Died

5,342 have caught Covid-19

Patients in hospital
Latest available
6,162

Patients on ventilation
Latest available
830


126,172 Total UK Deaths


https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Originally Posted by arista

Monday 15/3/21

64 Deaths today

5,089 have caught Covid-19

Patients in hospital
Latest available
8,029

Patients on ventilation
Latest available
1,110

125,580 Total UK deaths

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

.

.

[Nicky91]

going slightly up comparing last and this monday as for new cases, but only slightly

ICU & hospitalisations are down a lot when you look at that comparison

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

How do yu fancy a decade of being shut in , you won't be safe unvaccinated.

covid will continue to exist for next 10 years anyway

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

going slightly up comparing last and this monday as for new cases, but only slightly

ICU & hospitalisations are down a lot when you look at that comparison

Schools returning and increased testing was always going to drive cases up. Thankfully everything else still going in the right direction.

[LeatherTrumpet]

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