[user104658]

Not to be too doom and gloom, but this is a genuine question that I've been thinking about a lot lately. Whether it be through general global decline, full outright "apocalypse times" ahead or just the end of Western civilisation (because history has shown us, civilisations do frequently come to an end) ...

...

Are we living through those times? I try to work my head around it but I can't realistically come to any conclusion other than ... yes ... we probably are.



I don't THINK that will happen over night, but I think it might be quicker than I used to believe, due to a general acceleration of "events of decline" over the last few years. I don't think the energy crisis (global) is solveable as resources start to become more scarce. I don't think the knock-on effects on food, tech, and general supply chains that comes hand in hand with that is solveable. Not for 8 billion people. I don't think we'll clean up the oceans, I don't think we'll solve climate change, I don't think we'll halt the destruction of biodiversity... I think it's LOGICALLY the end of modern human civilisation.

I'm saying that quite pragmatically really. I hope it doesn't get too bad within the lifespan of my kids but I certainly think we're talking a century thereabouts at the upper end. I also suspect things are going to get very unpleasant for a lot of people over the next decade.

[Beso]

Oh nooooo....who's gonna cut the grass

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Oh nooooo....who's gonna cut the grass

It'll have fried to a crisp in the barren wastelands Parmy...

[Beso]

I think police and governments will lose control over their respective populations, bringing complete anarchy in the civilised world.

To me, that sounds exciting.

[bots]

most problems will be resolved by a reduction in population which will happen all on its own over time

[Nicky91]

that's what they also said about climate change, i mean what climate change


our water levels are back at normal now, after the 48,7mm of rainfall recently the drought seems to be close to fully restored to normal



overpopulation, well yeah my nation getting overpopulated now, thx to all those refugees (not wanting to be anti-refugee) but our late politician Pim Fortuyn sad how he was assassinated but he was right ''full is full'' why oh why do my government never say no to all those refugees when the country is already full and no place for more refugees, some already have to sleep on the streets

[arista]

Poll options


Pathetic.

WW3
would change it all

[user104658]

To be fair my "optimistic scenario" is that human civilisation crumbles and humans are gone, yet "life finds a way" and it turns out we haven't irreversibly damaged the planet... so in a few hundred years the grass is growing free, lush and unmolested.

[arista]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Oh nooooo....who's gonna cut the grass

Ex Military Robots

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair my "optimistic scenario" is that human civilisation crumbles and humans are gone, yet "life finds a way" and it turns out we haven't irreversibly damaged the planet... so in a few hundred years the grass is growing free, lush and unmolested.

Yeah or some other life forms evolve that can live in whatever mess we've left

[bots]

[Niamh.]

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

most problems will be resolved by a reduction in population which will happen all on its own over time

So option two, then? Most conventional thinking would describe that as a somewhat-apocalyptic scenario.

FWIW I do also think that's the most realistic scenario. I think with massive population reduction the world may "heal" relatively quickly, also. One thing I find quite interesting though is, would a more successful suture civilisation rise? If we use up all the fossil fuels and then decline back to the pre-industrial age... does the future-human-civilisation in 1000 years having their own industrial revolution automatically fare better, because they have to START with alternatives to fossil fuels (and by extension, plastics). An interesting thought really.

And does it qualify as an apocalyptic scenario if, ultimately, humans end up rebuilding and thriving.

I suppose my answer through the lens of anyone living through it is "yes it still counts". I'm not sure future projections matter much in day to day experience.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah or some other life forms evolve that can live in whatever mess we've left

Humanoid radioactive sludge children sitting in classrooms learning about how their ancient sludge ancestors developed legs and crawled out of the wreckage of ancient reactor cores?

"Nuclear war shnuclear war, instead of food we literally absorb pure radiation as an energy source for breakfast!"

[Oliver_W]

All forms of "progress" * drag humanity away from the ideal past. Some kind of solar storm frying all microchips and eliminating the electronics would do us all a world of good.

* I'm not talking about progress as in acceptance, obviously.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Humanoid radioactive sludge children sitting in classrooms learning about how their ancient sludge ancestors developed legs and crawled out of the wreckage of ancient reactor cores?

"Nuclear war shnuclear war, instead of food we literally absorb pure radiation as an energy source for breakfast!"

Something like that yeah

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

All forms of "progress" * drag humanity away from the ideal past. Some kind of solar storm frying all microchips and eliminating the electronics would do us all a world of good.

* I'm not talking about progress as in acceptance, obviously.

I think it goes back further than the microchips though. You could argue oil, you could argue industrial revolution/the spark of globalisation.

But for the beginning of the end you could honestly argue the agricultural revolution which takes us back millenia. I don't think humans exist well as we do. I think in all likelihood - assuming abundant resources - we probably individually thrived in our tribes. It's quite clear that it's something we instinctually crave and it's led to people self-organising into these weird approximations of that existence.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think it goes back further than the microchips though. You could argue oil, you could argue industrial revolution/the spark of globalisation.

But for the beginning of the end you could honestly argue the agricultural revolution which takes us back millenia. I don't think humans exist well as we do. I think in all likelihood - assuming abundant resources - we probably individually thrived in our tribes. It's quite clear that it's something we instinctually crave and it's led to people self-organising into these weird approximations of that existence.

Well sure but it would take one heck of a solar storm to get rid of the oil fields at least something happening to all the electronics is at least somewhat possible.

But yes, I do agree everyone would be much happier if the world could somehow revert to that kind of state.

[bots]

it would have been better if we had just carried on in blissful ignorance i think, worrying about things like climate will ultimately prove to be completely futile. Unless some genius pulls a rabbit out of the hat that saves the planet which is pretty unlikely

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Well sure but it would take one heck of a solar storm to get rid of the oil fields at least something happening to all the electronics is at least somewhat possible.

But yes, I do agree everyone would be much happier if the world could somehow revert to that kind of state.

I mean not really... they didn't FIND microchips buried in the ground... so long as the raw materials (metals, silicon etc) still exist then the microchip can be re-invented... or simply re-built since there are, presumably somewhere out there, explanations of how they're made on paper. It didn't take us very long to get from the first room-sized processing units to the microprocessor... it would just happen again, and quicker, because the expertise already exists.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it would have been better if we had just carried on in blissful ignorance i think, worrying about things like climate will ultimately prove to be completely futile. Unless some genius pulls a rabbit out of the hat that saves the planet which is pretty unlikely

I can see the logic in that BOTS, I think the current cycle of events has been in play for 100 years at least, it just wasn't so obvious without global connectivity shining a light on it. How one event plays into the next. We talk about WW3... my latest thought on that are that it can't be WW3 because WW2 never fully ended - just went quiet for a while. Current events are all rooted in exactly the same politics .

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I can see the logic in that BOTS, I think the current cycle of events has been in play for 100 years at least, it just wasn't so obvious without global connectivity shining a light on it. How one event plays into the next. We talk about WW3... my latest thought on that are that it can't be WW3 because WW2 never fully ended - just went quiet for a while. Current events are all rooted in exactly the same politics .

Never mind WW3, what about WW5!?

The Seven Years War and the Napoleonic Wars were both global conflicts. Then there's arguably the war on terror...