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user104658 · 27-01-2023, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Arista, the west is already at war with russia, we just don't have troops in the arena yet, doesn't mean we are not at war

The West is engaging in a proxy war of attrition by endlessly supplying Ukraine with equipment while Russia slowly but surely depletes their own. It's a war of sorts but it's a far cry from an actual war, and we should all hope it doesn't become an actual war.

A war between the US and Russia at this point is unquestionably not ANY sort of conventional war... Ukraine has been holding Russia's best efforts at bay with equipment from the US that's basically their toys and trinkets. Literally their piddly little playthings. The actual firepower and tech (non-nuclear) that the US has onboard its ships and aircraft carriers is insane. Just to put one small part into perspective - the USAF has something like 120 active 5th-generation fighter jets in service... Russia has 25 total, only 5 active. And 4th gen and below aircraft are functionally ineffective against 5th gen aircraft. They simply can't even see them. And that's just one aspect.

Basically it wouldn't be a war it would be a bulldozer - and that leaves Russia with only two viable options in that scenario... pretty much immediate cease-fire and talks, or hit the big red button.

There's a reason the US is fighting via Ukraine.

bots · 27-01-2023, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

The West is engaging in a proxy war of attrition by endlessly supplying Ukraine with equipment while Russia slowly but surely depletes their own. It's a war of sorts but it's a far cry from an actual war, and we should all hope it doesn't become an actual war.

A war between the US and Russia at this point is unquestionably not ANY sort of conventional war... Ukraine has been holding Russia's best efforts at bay with equipment from the US that's basically their toys and trinkets. Literally their piddly little playthings. The actual firepower and tech (non-nuclear) that the US has onboard its ships and aircraft carriers is insane. Just to put one small part into perspective - the USAF has something like 120 active 5th-generation fighter jets in service... Russia has 25 total, only 5 active. And 4th gen and below aircraft are functionally ineffective against 5th gen aircraft. They simply can't even see them. And that's just one aspect.

Basically it wouldn't be a war it would be a bulldozer - and that leaves Russia with only two viable options in that scenario... pretty much immediate cease-fire and talks, or hit the big red button.

There's a reason the US is fighting via Ukraine.

a lot of this is very true. The american (and british) tech is on a different level. We have had 30-40 years involved in minor conflicts to perfect the weaponry whereas russia has gone down the North Korea route where they go for bigger and faster and longer, never perfecting anything

user104658 · 27-01-2023, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

a lot of this is very true. The american (and british) tech is on a different level. We have had 30-40 years involved in minor conflicts to perfect the weaponry whereas russia has gone down the North Korea route where they go for bigger and faster and longer, never perfecting anything

Plus the money involved is... well it's just crazy. Russia has a similar military spending to the UK on its own and the US spending is more than 10x that. The UK of course benefits from the US openly sharing tech and often equipment with Western allies. And then when you consider the compounding effect of that over several decades, the US is basically tens-of-trillions (with a T!) of dollars ahead of any other country in terms of military development. Really quite scary stuff.

Livia · 27-01-2023, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

The West is engaging in a proxy war of attrition by endlessly supplying Ukraine with equipment while Russia slowly but surely depletes their own. It's a war of sorts but it's a far cry from an actual war, and we should all hope it doesn't become an actual war.

etc....

That'll be a relief for the people of Ukraine. It's isn't actually war you're going through.

Oliver_W · 27-01-2023, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

That'll be a relief for the people of Ukraine. It's isn't actually war you're going through.

I don't think ToyBoy was meaning to minimise anything.

Livia · 27-01-2023, 11:16 AM

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Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I don't think ToyBoy was meaning to minimise anything.

Good. Or I'm dragging him into the car park for a shoeing.

bots · 27-01-2023, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

Good. Or I'm dragging him into the car park for a shoeing.

the context came from my statement that the west were already at war with russia, so thats where it came from, it wasn't referring to the people of ukraine

Livia · 27-01-2023, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the context came from my statement that the west were already at war with russia, so thats where it came from, it wasn't referring to the people of ukraine

Yeah, I see... but claiming that the Ukraine isn't at war with Russia, well... I don't agree.

And anyway, Soldier Boy could do with a good shoeing from time to time.

user104658 · 27-01-2023, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

Yeah, I see... but claiming that the Ukraine isn't at war with Russia, well... I don't agree.

BOTS is right I'm not claiming that Ukraine isn't at war, Ukraine and Russia are obviously at war, just that Western nations are currently "just" supporting Ukraine in that war rather than being at war actively. Or, at least, there's deniability in political terms. I personally think it's all pretty murky because does it really make a difference that it's Ukrainian fingers pulling the triggers if all of the guns and ammo are European/American... but I suppose it's a well established political "game" and fighting wars this way is definitely nothing new.

Quote:

And anyway, Soldier Boy could do with a good shoeing from time to time.

Probably.