[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the problem is that when you are young, you have a lot more options available to you to get yourself out of a sticky financial position. By the time you hit pension age, your options can be greatly reduced.

That being said, we are still a lot better off here than we would be in many other countries.

But a.lot worse off than, for instance, Spain, France, Germany....

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the problem is that when you are young, you have a lot more options available to you to get yourself out of a sticky financial position. By the time you hit pension age, your options can be greatly reduced.

That being said, we are still a lot better off here than we would be in many other countries.

It's extra fun when you have a life-long dependant and caring responsibilities. I try not to think about it too much. Have to say though, as neither my nor my wife's work has any physical element, I've basically come to terms with the fact that we simply may not ever fully retire (and hope that we retain mental alacrity as we age, thankfully this has been the case on both sides of the family so fingers crossed).

Also my wife has her superannuation pension & reached a high payment band very early in her career which helps a lot. "Gold-plated pension" etc... assuming the entire financial system doesn't fall apart.

For my own contribution I being a smartarse heavily opted to have something like 80% of my pension (and my full stocks and shares ISA) in global tech so that's fallen off a cliff in the last two weeks . Thanks CrowdStrike ...

(realistically it'll rebound I'm not that worried, it's just been spooked)

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

But a.lot worse off than, for instance, Spain, France, Germany....

Republic of Ireland

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Ah thats why then and now you will never get it

Watch the State Pension Age rise to 70 next

Erm, I believe it’s going to be 71

[Livia]

I have an auntie, worked for BT as a clerk and paid into a pension. She is not a wealthy woman but she's better off than some. She slipped into I'll health in the last few years, became immobile and needs carers. Because she has a pension she pays almost Ł900 per month to fund her own care. Her daughter - my cousin - had to give up her well paid job because my aunt needs constant care and she didn't want her mother put in a care home. My cousin receives the princely sum of Ł79 a week because she cares for my aunt 24 house a day, 7 days a week. It would be Ł59 if the care for her mother was less than 24 hours a day. The majority of the outside carers who visit are slapdash, are gone after 10 minutes of a 30 minute visit and there seems to be no comeback on them or the companies they work for. The Care Quality Commission is a joke and the local council's elderly care dept is not fit for purpose.

No one cares about the elderly, nor the families who give up their jobs and lives to look after them. I think it shames our country. Taking the winter fuel allowance from them while money is poured into less worthy areas just underlines that fact.

[bots]

it speaks to the character of the people making the decisions. They were full of promises before the election, but their first big decision, in their first month, they decide to go after the most vulnerable in society and punish them. What the hell are they going to be like a few months down the line

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it speaks to the character of the people making the decisions. They were full of promises before the election, but their first big decision, in their first month, they decide to go after the most vulnerable in society and punish them. What the hell are they going to be like a few months down the line

Labour making a difference..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[joeysteele]

I'm against this.
I expect a lot of moaning from Labour members against this.

I recall the Cons saying this possibly should be means tested but it would cost a significant sum to process that.

I get that it's ridiculous that millionaires and millionaires plus.
Also large company directors retiring on massive pay offs and pensions, that they get this winter fuel payments too.

However it cannot just be left to claiming pension credit.
Plus as has been said, masses of pensioners aren't getting pension credit.
Although entitled to it.
Until Reeves knew ( which she does not), that ALL those entitled to pension credit ARE getting it.
Then she shouldn't be doing this.

Plus the cut off needs to be a lot higher.
If she needs to find 22 billion REALLY.
Then this is pointless, it will only yield 1.4 billion.

Shocking start to her being Chancellor, smells of cowardice and unfairness all through.
She has to be made to re -think this one.

I am myself really disappointed with her on this.
This is on a par with the coalition government's persecution of the sick and disabled.

[Vanessa]

This will lose them a lot of votes when it's time for elections again.

[Crimson Dynamo]

My old mum used to rely on this

They hate old people as they don't vote for them

heartless

[smudgie]

Oh dear, it’s not just the pensioners.
Sick and disabled won’t be getting it either.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I'm against this.
I expect a lot of moaning from Labour members against this.

I recall the Cons saying this possibly should be means tested but it would cost a significant sum to process that.

I get that it's ridiculous that millionaires and millionaires plus.
Also large company directors retiring on massive pay offs and pensions, that they get this winter fuel payments too.

However it cannot just be left to claiming pension credit.
Plus as has been said, masses of pensioners aren't getting pension credit.
Although entitled to it.
Until Reeves knew ( which she does not), that ALL those entitled to pension credit ARE getting it.
Then she shouldn't be doing this.

Plus the cut off needs to be a lot higher.
If she needs to find 22 billion REALLY.
Then this is pointless, it will only yield 1.4 billion.

Shocking start to her being Chancellor, smells of cowardice and unfairness all through.
She has to be made to re -think this one.

I am myself really disappointed with her on this.
This is on a par with the coalition government's persecution of the sick and disabled.

You were the first one I thought of Joey and I knew you would be disgusted and would feel let down

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

You were the first one I thought of Joey and I knew you would be disgusted and would feel let down

I just got back from Rome today.
I've had 2 weeks away from phones and internet.
Tried to avoid any news.

Once I saw this, properly on my return,I was gobsmacked.
It's way out of anything I expected to take place.

Energy costs are going up again in October by more than they came down in July.
It's MORE help required not less.
Disgusted is the word Cherie.

I mean I can agree, the really rich millionaires pensioners and those with massive private pensions like big Company directors.
They don't need it.

No, I'm against this and I hope there's a change of heart.
It actually comes across as vindictive more like to penalise the elderly for governmental mistakes and wrongdoing.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I just got back from Rome today.
I've had 2 weeks away from phones and internet.
Tried to avoid any news.

Once I saw this, properly on my return,I was gobsmacked.
It's way out of anything I expected to take place.

Energy costs are going up again in October by more than they came down in July.
It's MORE help required not less.
Disgusted is the word Cherie.

I mean I can agree, the really rich millionaires pensioners and those with massive private pensions like big Company directors.
They don't need it.

No, I'm against this and I hope there's a change of heart.
It actually comes across as vindictive more like to penalise the elderly for governmental mistakes and wrongdoing.

bang on right Joey

and welcome back!

[bots]

the problem with means testing is it costs a lot in administration to do. It also directly puts in danger very vulnerable people. These people may actually die with no heating. Many are not able to keep active and warm. Many, like me, are on blood thinners, that make you more susceptible to the cold. It's not just that they are old, it's that they are medically not able to cope with the cold.

The government know this and still decided to make them the prime target. It's unthinkable from a caring society

[Cherie]

Apparently there will be a vote on this next Tuesday, its all being kept very quiet?

https://news.sky.com/video/mps-to-ge...-cuts-13210066

[bots]

i hope they record the individuals who vote to rob pensioners

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bots

i hope they record the individuals who vote to rob pensioners

I heard last night that the majority will vote for the cut for fear of losing the Whip, they may abstain but there in no guarantee they wont be punished for doing that...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I heard last night that the majority will vote for the cut for fear of losing the Whip, they may abstain but there in no guarantee they wont be punished for doing that...

Ahhh... Democracy in action.

[bots]

It's going to be quite enlightening if all of labour vote to rob pensioners and everyone else supports them, which is the likely outcome

Even enforcing the whip to rob pensioners is an obscene act

[Cherie]

ir Keir Starmer faces his first major rebellion this week amid warnings cuts to winter fuel payments will become his "poll tax moment".

Angry MPs branded the decision "brutal" and "shameful" and fear the government will be blamed if pensioners die in the cold.

The Prime Minister is fighting to keep the lid on an explosive row as backbenchers and union leaders pile on pressure for a U-turn.


Twelve Labour rebels have signed a Commons motion demanding a re-think, backed by six colleagues suspended for voting against the child benefit cap.

Last night government whips were accused of making "terrifying" threats to keep their troops in line ahead of a crunch vote on Tuesday. On the same day, Labour's union paymasters will back the rebels in a vote at the TUC conference in Brighton.
Sir Keir is under fire after ruling that up to 10 million elderly people will lose the winter fuel payment - which pays up to Ł300 - to plug a "black hole" in public finances.

The decision was announced just before train drivers were given inflation-busting pay rises. While ministers are confident of winning Tuesday's vote, they are concerned about the long-term effects of simmering discontent on the back benches.

Some fear the winter fuel row will dog him like the poll tax, the disastrous policy that brought down former Tory PM Margaret Thatcher.

But as one insider observed: "Thatcher had been in power for 11 years when she made that blunder. Keir has been in office for just 65 days."

Party insiders said new MPs were "terrified" by the "ruthless" strong-arming of party whips.

Few Labour MPs, if any will, vote against the cuts but whips fear many will abstain or to back the Government only under duress, with insiders fearing the leadership is storing up discontent that will encourage future battles.

Union activists also want a U-turn, with Unite, Usdaw and the PCS opposing the cuts.

Former home secretary James Cleverly, who is standing for the Tory leadership, said last night: "As the reality of what he is doing dawns on his MPs, Starmer is facing his very own poll tax moment."

Labour's Rosie Duffield, a former whip, warned: "We are actually going to see people die."

She said: "All MPs have been inundated with emails. It's not just from those constituents affected, it's also their families and people who are really concerned about the most vulnerable of those constituents.

"People who have ongoing health concerns, learning disabilities, the absolutely most vulnerable of the older people are the people we have got to look out for."

Ms Duffield highlighted research showing 4,950 died last winter due to cold, saying: "It just feels particularly brutal."

She added: "We know that pensioners living on just Ł13,000 a year will lose out. I find it particularly shameful that the lowest-paid MP, backbenchers like me, get Ł91,000 a year and here we are making decisions that will affect people on Ł13,000."

But highlighting the ruthless operation to ensure MPs fall into line, she said: "The government has made it very clear to MPs how they are going to behave towards us if we do vote against."

Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Mel Stride, a Tory leadership hopeful, will lead opposition to the cuts in the Commons this week, and appeal to Labour MPs to follow their consciences.

He said: "If in your heart you know that this is deeply unfair and going to be punished for a lot of people who are vulnerable and not able to change their circumstances, we're giving you the chance now to vote this down."

Former Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey said the move could destroy Sir Keir's reputation in a similar way to the disastrous "mini-budget" which forced former Prime Minister Liz Truss out of Number 10, or economic chaos which forced the UK to leave the ERM under John Major.

Ten million pensioners will no longer receive winter fuel payments of up to Ł300 under the means-testing plan announced by Chancellor Rachel Reeves. Only people on Pension Credit, including individuals with incomes below Ł11,344 or pensioner couples with a joint income below Ł17,313, will continue to be eligible.

Backbenchers are pleading with Ms Reeves to announce help for low-income pensioners before Tuesday's vote but Downing Street sources indicated there will be no concessions.

Number 10 pointed out that the Government was already helping people in need after announcing last week that it is providing almost Ł500 million to help people struggling with bills.

There is anger over the decision to hold a vote at all, as this is not required in order to introduce means-testing. The Government has in fact already introduced the required regulations and they come into force on September 16.

But a cross-party House of Lords Committee condemned Ministers for rushing in the changes, saying: "The policy seems to be being introduced at a pace that does not permit appropriate scrutiny."

The House of Lords Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee said it was "concerning" that winter fuel payments are being cut after energy regulator Ofgem had announced that the cost of gas and electricity for a typical household will rise by Ł149 per year, an increase of 10 percent.

Labour MPs also fear the cuts will cause a winter NHS crisis, with hospitals overwhelmed by pensioners who have fallen ill because they cannot afford to heat their homes.

Former shadow cabinet minister Rachael Maskell, who worked in the NHS for 20 years, said: "If people go cold the pressure in the health service over winter will be astronomical. It will make seeing a GP or getting into A&E much harder."

The motion signed by a dozen Labour MPs was also backed by ex-Labour MPs currently suspended, including former Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, and two independent MPs elected on a pro-Gaza platform.

A Government spokesman said: "We are absolutely committed to supporting pensioners and giving them the dignity and security they deserve in retirement. That's why through our commitment to protect the triple lock, over 12 million pensioners could see their State Pensions increase by almost a thousand pounds over the next five years.

"But given the dire state of the public finances we have inherited, it's right that we target support to those who need it most while we take the difficult decisions needed to fix the foundations of our economy. Over a million pensioners will continue to receive the Winter Fuel Payment and eligible pensioners will also be able to benefit from the Ł150 Warm Home Discount scheme from October to help with their energy bills over winter.

"We are urging pensioners to come forward and check their eligibility for Pension Credit to ensure as many people in need as possible have access to this support."

The End Fuel Poverty Coalition has estimated that 4,950 excess winter deaths in the UK were caused by living in cold homes over winter and in a report last year Prof Sir Chris Whitty, the Chief Medical Officer for England, said "cold homes and fuel poverty are directly linked to excess winter deaths".

[joeysteele]

This is an obscene idea.

I know Labour members are and I hope more Labour MPs join the move against it.

It's just completely the wrong way to save any funds.
Ridiculous.

[arista]

[Twelve Labour rebels have signed a
Commons motion demanding a re-think,
backed by six colleagues suspended for voting
against the child benefit cap.]


Yes if they get a Vote on it
could force Starmer to U-turn.

[arista]

BBC News Text :
[Starmer faces his first major rebellion
this week over planned cuts to winter
fuel payments and warns it will become
his "poll tax moment".
The paper says Labour MPs care calling
the decision - to make the payment
only to those on low incomes who
receive certain benefits
- "brutal" and "shameful".]

[arista]