[bots]

The prime minister has told the BBC his new government is "going to have to be unpopular" as he defended his "tough" decision to cut winter fuel payments.

Speaking on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg in his first major interview in Downing Street, Sir Keir Starmer said he was determined to deliver change but this meant having to "do the difficult things now".


-------------------------

It's tough to decide to kill old people .... but hey ho .... Merry Christmas!

Killer Starmer will regret this

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bots

The prime minister has told the BBC his new government is "going to have to be unpopular" as he defended his "tough" decision to cut winter fuel payments.

Speaking on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg in his first major interview in Downing Street, Sir Keir Starmer said he was determined to deliver change but this meant having to "do the difficult things now".


-------------------------

It's tough to decide to kill old people .... but hey ho .... Merry Christmas!

The people with the broadest shoulders will have to take the load, pensioners on 13k a year

John McDonnell was just interviewed on LBC, he said the year that Gordon Brown introduced this excess deaths dropped by 50 per cent, so for anyone to say that Starmer and Reeves are not pursuing a policy to kill off pensioners are fooling themselves

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by bots

The prime minister has told the BBC his new government is "going to have to be unpopular" as he defended his "tough" decision to cut winter fuel payments.

Speaking on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg in his first major interview in Downing Street, Sir Keir Starmer said he was determined to deliver change but this meant having to "do the difficult things now".


-------------------------

It's tough to decide to kill old people .... but hey ho .... Merry Christmas!

Aye, watching him now.
Perhaps he should allow a free vote on the matter and not whip up anti democratic choice.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The people with the broadest shoulders will have to take the load, pensioners on 13k a year

John McDonnell was just interviewed on LBC, he said the year that Gordon Brown introduced this excess deaths dropped by 50 per cent, so for anyone to say that Starmer and Reeves are not pursuing a policy to kill off pensioners are fooling themselves

I mean if you want to completely remove any semblance of heart from the equation and only look at the numbers...

Dead pensioners is great for the economy. I would possibly go as far as to say, "fewer elderly people" is better for the economy of a country than literally anything else.

Elderly people cost money (care, pensions, the vast bulk of NHS expenditure) and dead elderly people are an economic boon (inheritance get spent, houses get sold, carers return to work).

To be clear I'm not saying that any of this is moral or good - it abhorrent and dystopian - but I think we're going to see it as an increasing trend. They do not want elderly people in the economy unless they're wealthy enough to support themselves or have families with enough money to do so.

More charitably I think that's another part of it - they don't necessarily want elderly people to choose not to use their heating, they want the message to be very much out there that they won't get help, because they want families to help with elderly winter bills instead and know that most people would be (understandably) ashamed to ask. They're sadly not accounting for the fact that many elderly people simply don't have anyone checking in very often.

[arista]

[bots]

Elderly will die over the winter and it's going to be firmly laid at killer Starmer's door

[Quantum Boy]

He knows fine well people will largely have forgotten about it by the time it actually matters to him (the next election).

[bots]

oap's will die every winter and it will be brought up every time, so it's not something that will be forgotten or go away

[Liam-]

Old people die in the winter every single year, I never once heard people blame the tories or claim they were killing off pensioners

[arista]

Labour Rachel Maskell MP (York Central)

Is Ready to Vote against PM Starmer
on the Tuesday Vote

She just confirmed on Ch4HDnews.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Old people die in the winter every single year, I never once heard people blame the tories or claim they were killing off pensioners

eh? they didnt try by taking their fuel allowance away, I am sure you know this, its kinda hilarious that you back the Labour party so much you will defend them taking away fuel allowances, if you read further up John McDonell said excess deaths FELL by 50 per cent after Gordon Brown introduced it, but hey put your head in the sand, they will be coming for you soon ......they want everyone working

[joeysteele]

It will be and in my view, RIGHTLY, the case that there will be much closer scrutiny now of the elderly over Winter.

I think the cold weather payments too, need looking at, they should not just be triggered after 7 consecutive days of freezing or below.
However should be after 7 days immaterial of when the 7th day is reached.

However, I am disappointed and dismayed.
Moreso though disgusted with this government I fought to elect.

I cannot support the elderly losing this payment.
This whole government of whoever support this cutting of this payment WILL be responsible for any deaths related to not being able to heat homes.
No doubt about it.

I still cannot believe it is being done, despite the outcry from the CAB, the age charities and other organisations too.
Strength and power abused is not what I hoped for here.

If this goes ahead, if pensioners die because of not being able to PROPERLY and FULLY keep their homes heated.
Then my membership of Labour will be terminated and I will not be the only one by a long way.

No, this is WRONG and it's as heartless as anything the Cons ever did in government.
Yes HEARTLESS, that's exactly all it is.
Reeves is a disgrace.
If Starmer cannot stand up to her then he will be equally as bad.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It will be and in my view, RIGHTLY, the case that there will be much closer scrutiny now of the elderly over Winter.

I think the cold weather payments too, need looking at, they should not just be triggered after 7 consecutive days of freezing or below.
However should be after 7 days immaterial of when the 7th day is reached.

However, I am disappointed and dismayed.
Moreso though disgusted with this government I fought to elect.

I cannot support the elderly losing this payment.
This whole government of whoever support this cutting of this payment WILL be responsible for any deaths related to not being able to heat homes.
No doubt about it.

I still cannot believe it is being done, despite the outcry from the CAB, the age charities and other organisations too.
Strength and power abused is not what I hoped for here.

If this goes ahead, if pensioners die because of not being able to PROPERLY and FULLY keep their homes heated.
Then my membership of Labour will be terminated and I will not be the only one by a long way.

No, this is WRONG and it's as heartless as anything the Cons ever did in government.
Yes HEARTLESS, that's exactly all it is.
Reeves is a disgrace.
If Starmer cannot stand up to her then he will be equally as bad.

That is sad to see Joey, I must admit I didn't expect this from Labour I couldnt vote for anyone as I was just sick of being lied to, that said I never thought Labour's first port of call would be pensioners, if we are all going to feel this pain it will be interesting where else they will find 'broad shoulders from'

[MTVN]

The Tories did also get a lot of blame for elderly people not being able to afford heating

Remember Boris being grilled on the story of the woman who apparently rode the bus all day to stay warm?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by MTVN

The Tories did also get a lot of blame for elderly people not being able to afford heating

Remember Boris being grilled on the story of the woman who apparently rode the bus all day to stay warm?

They will tell you that never happened or that community centres opened when energy prices spiked for people to go to keep warm, and that was when people had government support in addition to the winter fuel allowance, now they will have neither, prices are still as high but according to some Labour die hards this will not result in any deaths....its just a myth, and Starmer and Reeves are apparently unaware of any impact this will have......mind boggling.......

[bots]

As many as 50 Labour MPs could refuse to back the government’s controversial plan to cut the winter fuel allowance, despite Keir Starmer urging back benchers to get behind a measure he has conceded is “unpopular”.

While few on the government benches are expected to vote against the policy in Tuesday’s vote, dozens are believed to be considering abstaining or being absent – though rebels say the numbers in their ranks are very hard to predict.
After seven Labour MPs had the whip suspended in July for voting for an SNP amendment on the two-child benefit cap, the assumption is that a similar rebellion on Tuesday would bring the same consequences..

One Labour MP said: “I’d expect the vast majority of anyone who does rebel to abstain, and remain inside the tent. Abstention is the new rebellion. It’s a question of defining what dissent is, and it’s probably better to do this than to jump off a cliff.”
Although there is no chance of the vote being lost, a significant number of absences would indicate the extent of disquiet over a policy that many rebels fear could lose the party votes, and which one MP described as “a shitshow”.

[Cherie]

Even the Unions are stalling on this now

Unions have joined condemnation of stripping the winter fuel allowance from millions of pensioners as Keir Starmer faces a revolt from dozens of MPs.

Demands for a U-turn have been growing as union chiefs - many of whom fund Labour - gather for their annual conference in Brighton.

The move to strip millions of old people of the handouts, worth up to Ł300 a year, has been slammed as 'wrong' - as it emerged that Labour's own research previously raised alarm that thousands could die.

Sir Keir is scrambling to minimise a damaging rebellion after being forced to call a Commons vote on the measure tomorrow.

The government had originally tried to dodge a confrontation by using a so-called 'negative resolution'. But up to 50 MPs are now thought to be considering whether to break ranks.



Pitting Pensioners against workers, thought Keir was all about uniting the country...

[arista]

Yes more will abstain
making this carry on.

[bots]

This morning, the UK’s largest trade union - Unite - accused Starmer's party of deciding to “pick the pockets of pensioners” while leaving the rich “totally untouched”.

Sharon Graham, general secretary of Unite, told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that Starmer needs to be “big enough and brave enough to do a U-turn on this choice", adding that it's "completely wrong".

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bots

This morning, the UK’s largest trade union - Unite - accused Starmer's party of deciding to “pick the pockets of pensioners” while leaving the rich “totally untouched”.

Sharon Graham, general secretary of Unite, told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that Starmer needs to be “big enough and brave enough to do a U-turn on this choice", adding that it's "completely wrong".

OOP


I literally cannot understand how their first policy and the one that will follow them around for the next 5 years whatever the outcome is taking money from pensioners, its just bizarre, I have no doubt there are pensioners out there who dont need it but if you are going to implement a policy you cannot have such a low cut off, they managed to means test child benefit and set the cap at 50k why not set the cap at 20k ...anyone getting over 12500 will be paying tax anyway so it would have been pretty easy for HMRC to identify these 'wealthy' pensioners

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Cherie

They will tell you that never happened or that community centres opened when energy prices spiked for people to go to keep warm, and that was when people had government support in addition to the winter fuel allowance, now they will have neither, prices are still as high but according to some Labour die hards this will not result in any deaths....its just a myth, and Starmer and Reeves are apparently unaware of any impact this will have......mind boggling.......

Maybe stamers thinks deaths only happen when its a conservative making the cuts.That would explain his prediction that thousands would have died under the tory winter cuts.

[arista]

Union Rail Boss Mick Lynch
have asked Rachel Reeves
to change this cut back on the old.

6PM tonight
Reeves is having a closed-door meeting
with Union bosses.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Union Rail Boss Mick Lynch
have asked Rachel Reeves
to change this cut back on the old.

6PM tonight
Reeves is having a closed-door meeting
with Union bosses.

who will win this ....

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

who will win this ....

I assume it will be wait for
PM Starmer to change his mind?

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

The Tories did also get a lot of blame for elderly people not being able to afford heating

Remember Boris being grilled on the story of the woman who apparently rode the bus all day to stay warm?

Yes that old biddie
was clever.

Using her Free Bus pass to hop on warm buses