[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I comment on stand alone posts like the one below .. ones where you don’t have to have seen the incident .

I said it was quite a stretch to reach that conclusion

Hopefully this clears the matter up


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Not really but I cba to talk about your pointless posts.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Not really but I cba to talk about your pointless posts.

Well I cannot make things any clearer ..


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[Beso]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Why word it that way ffs


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That's how the 3 of them describe it. dont shoot the messenger.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by BBXX

The amount of subtle homophobia on this forum is actually staggering, it makes me sick.

You are commenting in a thread about Ali describing her pyramid theory to Dean..it is exactly how she described herself, dean, and martha at the bottom of that pyramid.

Queers, thays what she said, 3 queers. Which incidentally is the Q in LGBTQ, and people are proud to wear that badge so I will say queer whenever I want, thank you very much.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Beso

You are commenting in a thread about Ali describing her pyramid theory to Dean..it is exactly how she described herself, dean, and martha at the bottom of that pyramid.

Queers, thays what she said, 3 queers. Which incidentally is the Q in LGBTQ, and people are proud to wear that badge so I will say queer whenever I want, thank you very much.

A lesbian referred to herself and two housemates she is close to as the queer housemates. She’s never ever referred to it as the 3 Queer Alliance and it’s not up to a straight person to do so on her behalf.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by BBXX

A lesbian referred to herself and two housemates she is close to as the queer housemates. She’s never ever referred to it as the 3 Queer Alliance and it’s not up to a straight person to do so on her behalf.

I'm doing it on my own behalf thank you, you dont own gay.

The 3 self proclaimed queers have formed a short lived alliance, I am calling it the 3 queer alliance..what's wrong with that?

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Beso

I'm doing it on my own behalf thank you, you dont own gay.

But that’s not what the alliance is called. The alliance doesn’t even have a name. In fact Ali, Nathan and Dean arent even in a 3-alliance.

So when straight person, who has made questionable similar comments in the past, bunches them together as an alliance and names it the Queer Alliance it conveys a subtle homophobic rhetoric, that is how it is.

[Beso]

They are definitely an alliance.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Show me an example where I have not specifically referred to a post


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Honestly not interested Zizu. Take your personal squabbles elsewhere.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Beso

That's how the 3 of them describe it. dont shoot the messenger.

My apologies if that’s correct


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[Beso]

Originally Posted by BBXX

A lesbian referred to herself and two housemates she is close to as the queer housemates. She’s never ever referred to it as the 3 Queer Alliance and it’s not up to a straight person to do so on her behalf.

Do the LGBTQ community want people to use these words, or not?

Because I'm confused!

Is it only people falling under the rainbow banner that's allowed to use them because im sorry, but you cant be telling people what words they can or cant use.

I will say however to stop you being so offended, and to stop you accusing me if casual homophobia that I will now cease from uttering that word on here again.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Beso

Do the LGBTQ community want people to use these words, or not?

Because I'm confused!

Is it only people falling under the rainbow banner that's allowed to use them because im sorry, but you cant be telling people what words they can or cant use.

I will say however to stop you being so offended, and to stop you accusing me if casual homophobia that I will now cease from uttering that word on here again.

The issue wasn't with you using the word queer, it was the context it was used in - it was you calling them the ' 3 Queer Alliance' when they themselves haven't coined that phrase. They are not in an alliance of three, you've taken it from when Ali was talking about the triangle and said that in the middle and the bottom are the "queer housemates". Totally different.

Would you group people of colour together and call them a "POC-Alliance" or what about if a few HMs who happened to be friends shared a religion? That would be equally inappropriate.

It's like when you called Henry and Jordan's relationship a "gay parade". Yes, they were both gay but would you ever refer to any straight relationship as the "straight parade".

It's completely unnecessary.

[Beso]

That's thats the difference though, The POC in the house havnt called themselves the POC group, ali and dean clearly referred to themselves as the queera at the bottom of the pyramid.. not the middle, but the bottom. They lumped Martha in with them, making it 3. I think Ali said, "that leaves us, the 3 queers at the bottom"

Then you had the conversation between the 3 of them together in Alis bed, talking about getting hanah into their group..*group = alliance*

So I rekon I'm ok calling it what I did, even as a straight person. People, or groups of people do not own words, nor can they tell others what and when they can use certain words. I wouldnt however use straight parade as a term either, because there is no parade for being straight, there are many for being gay though, which is why I linked the 2 words together on that occasion.

I think you are far to quick to point fingers at people for the words and wording they use in referring to people and situations.

[bots]

people can use terms in whatever way they want, this is a country of free speech. If something is not regarded as hate speech then it is fine. However, i do accept that laws differ between england and scotland in that regard now

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Beso

That's thats the difference though, The POC in the house havnt called themselves the POC group, ali and dean clearly referred to themselves as the queera at the bottom of the pyramid.. not the middle, but the bottom. They lumped Martha in with them, making it 3. I think Ali said, "that leaves us, the 3 queers at the bottom"

It's not the same, IMO and they've never called themselves the Queer Alliance but we're going round in circles. If you want to carry on saying it, despite it not existing, then crack on.

I wouldn't however use straight parade as a term either, because there is no parade for being straight, there are many for being gay though, which is why I linked the 2 words together on that occasion.

You were referring to their relationship in the house. Nothing to do with pride. Even if you didn't use the word Parade, saying "it's better than the gay relationship last year" sounds odd and questionable. You wouldn't say "better than the straight relationship last year". You just wouldn't.

Look, you're free to say what you want and I am free to call it how I find it. I really don't want to just keep going round in circles about this because we're not going to agree on this subject so it feels pointless.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by bots

people can use terms in whatever way they want, this is a country of free speech. If something is not regarded as hate speech then it is fine. However, i do accept that laws differ between england and scotland in that regard now

Absolutely, free speech exists. Beso is free to use certain words, I am free to say if I find the context offensive. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence and the consequence on this occasion is me saying sometimes what Beso say sounds a bit homophobic.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I would just imagine that most people that work in Forensic Psychology would have a basic level of empathy, but maybe I'm wrong tbf as I'm not an expert on this topic.

And I do largely agree with your points, I just do wonder if on the side did Ali also feel bad for Hanah a little bit.

I don’t think you’re wrong in this suggestion at all, as I believe both things can be true at the same time, in respect that people can have more than one motive for carrying out any particular action.

On an emotional level, Ali might well have felt genuine empathy for Hanah, whilst on an intellectual level she might have recognised that Hanah could help her feel a greater sense of security in adding numbers to her group. To add to that, on a sub-conscious level, her background in psychology might have triggered her analytical thinking, and taken her comfortably into the role of counselling or calming down a person in distress.

The truth is none of us truly know what another person’s motives might be, and ironically Ali might not even be fully aware of her own motives, or she might perceive them differently to others.

In just the same way, members of the forum will perceive Ali differently, depending on their own backgrounds, knowledge and experiences. Most of what is expressed on here in terms of assessing or judging a housemate’s character, is personal opinion based on individual perception, as that’s all it can be. It’s one of the reasons I always try to clearly present my opinions as just that, rather than stating them as fact. In reality, no-one can claim they are more right than anyone else, and as long as opinions are based on justifiable evidence, everyone’s is equally valid.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Absolutely, free speech exists. Beso is free to use certain words, I am free to say if I find the context offensive. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence and the consequence on this occasion is me saying sometimes what Beso say sounds a bit homophobic.

There is a difference though, my words have no direct consequences for another person, whereas your words, which is basically you saying I'm a hateful person(which is rather hateful in itself) have a direct consequence for me.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Beso

There is a difference though, my words have no direct consequences for another person, whereas your words, which is basically you saying I'm a hateful person(which is rather hateful in itself) have a direct consequence for me.

I have never said you're hateful because I do not think that. I haven't even said you're a homophobe. I have said some of the things you say come across a little homophobic.

I don't believe you intend to offend people with your words, but I do believe you may not realise how they could be perceived.

If I have made you feel like I think you're a hateful person, I apologise because I truly don't think that. I don't know you.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Beso

That's thats the difference though, The POC in the house havnt called themselves the POC group, ali and dean clearly referred to themselves as the queera at the bottom of the pyramid.. not the middle, but the bottom. They lumped Martha in with them, making it 3. I think Ali said, "that leaves us, the 3 queers at the bottom"

Then you had the conversation between the 3 of them together in Alis bed, talking about getting hanah into their group..*group = alliance*

So I rekon I'm ok calling it what I did, even as a straight person. People, or groups of people do not own words, nor can they tell others what and when they can use certain words. I wouldnt however use straight parade as a term either, because there is no parade for being straight, there are many for being gay though, which is why I linked the 2 words together on that occasion.

I think you are far to quick to point fingers at people for the words and wording they use in referring to people and situations.

I’m sorry but I have to back up BBXX here. From a neutral perspective, I think you are cleverly playing with words here to send an underlying message without overtly stating it, as you know that doing so wouldn’t be wise.

Your faux innocence, does not disguise the fact that you are fully aware of your intentions - as are many of us witnessing this interaction.

[BBXX]

Also I absolutely cannot ignore the fact that you are so outraged that I've called some of your words homophobic yet you will happily label Ali racist based on absolutely no evidence.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I have never said you're hateful because I do not think that. I haven't even said you're a homophobe. I have said some of the things you say come across a little homophobic.

I don't believe you intend to offend people with your words, but I do believe you may not realise how they could be perceived.

If I have made you feel like I think you're a hateful person, I apologise because I truly don't think that. I don't know you.

No need to apologise, and I understand you better now. I shall be more carefull in the future so we can both be happier.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I’m sorry but I have to back up BBXX here. From a neutral perspective, I think you are cleverly playing with words here to send an underlying message without overtly stating it, as you know that doing so wouldn’t be wise.

Your faux innocence, does not disguise the fact that you are fully aware of your intentions - as are many of us witnessing this interaction.

Cleverly playing with words..well that's a first for me, so you dont need to apologise, even though you are incorrect.

I've said what I said and explained why i said it, if people cant take a straight person calling people the term they want to be called, then I cant help that.

And, who is ali to call martha queer, does she know that's how martha wants herself to be described in discussions..couldnt she have just said, you me and martha? Was she cleverly using words to get a reaction, positive reaction, from the viewer?

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Beso

There is a difference though, my words have no direct consequences for another person, whereas your words, which is basically you saying I'm a hateful person(which is rather hateful in itself) have a direct consequence for me.

You’re wrong. Your words do have a direct consequence to any LGTBQ+ person in this forum who happens to be reading this thread, or other threads in which you have made similar comments. Those people will have been subject to this sort of thing repeatedly in their lives, and you do it purposely to degrade them and because you know it will have a negative effect.

In my opinion, you also choose to do it all by implication and suggestion as you are fully aware of the consequences of stating it openly.

And know this is coming from a straight person, who has seen it all too often before. Know too, that your words are having a direct consequence on me, by just witnessing them, as they are wrong.

I won’t call you a hateful person, but I will say your actions are hateful. And, I believe you already know that. I’m truly saddened to read this sort of stuff in this day and age.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Garfie

You’re wrong. Your words do have a direct consequence to any LGTBQ+ person in this forum who happens to be reading this thread, or other threads in which you have made similar comments. Those people will have been subject to this sort of thing repeatedly in their lives, and you do it purposely to degrade them and because you know it will have a negative effect.

In my opinion, you also choose to do it all by implication and suggestion as you are fully aware of the consequences of stating it openly.

And know this is coming from a straight person, who has seen it all too often before. Know too, that your words are having a direct consequence on me, by just witnessing them, as they are wrong.

I won’t call you a hateful person, but I will say your actions are hateful. And, I believe you already know that. I’m truly saddened to read this sort of stuff in this day and age.

Well can you please tell me what word to use for people who identify as the Q in LGBTQ so I can use that instead.