[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Holly Christmas

Oh you were there? I said in my opinion they encouraged him by supplying the drugs. That's egging on.

Anyway as I said I'm outta here. Disappointed by the lack of empathy for a mentally ill man.

Probably best to stay out of here going forward then as you’ll continued to be disappointed in your incorrect judgement on us.

[Niamh.]

Not to sound cynical but people seems to be more sympathetic to him because he was young and good looking, like i couldn't imagine people having the same level of sympathy for someone like Blake Fielder or Pete Doherty

[UserSince2005]

His girlfriend left him for three days and he cheated on her with like 5+ people in that time. Let’s not make out he was a saint

[UserSince2005]

I have a feeling this might be someone on here?

[AnnieK]

Drug dealers only bring drugs in for paying customers. No-one egged him on....drug dealing is supply and demand. He was addicted....but his own actions led to that addiction. It's very sad...I've seen friends lost to their addictions but to blame others is excusing what led to the addiction in the first place and that is someone making a conscious decision to start taking drugs.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

Not to sound cynical but people seems to be more sympathetic to him because he was young and good looking, like i couldn't imagine people having the same level of sympathy for someone like Blake Fielder or Pete Doherty

I think people have a level of human kindness in most cases

No one sets out to destroy themselves and their relationships with others

They try it they get hooked and the drugs take them over

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

Drug dealers only bring drugs in for paying customers. No-one egged him on....drug dealing is supply and demand. He was addicted....but his own actions led to that addiction. It's very sad...I've seen friends lost to their addictions but to blame others is excusing what led to the addiction in the first place and that is someone making a conscious decision to start taking drugs.

Selling drugs is illegal so there has to be punishment
You would feel differently if your son had a habit and a dealer was coming round to sell him drugs

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Selling drugs is illegal so there has to be punishment
You would feel differently if your son had a habit and a dealer was coming round to sell him drugs

You can't bring these things to a personal level though......I would kill anyone who laid a finger on my kid....that would be illegal too...understandable maybe but still illegal.

I am not saying that drug dealing doesn't deserve any punishment, that's ridiculous to try and suggest otherwise

None of that changes the fact that Liam was demanding drugs. If he didn't ask for them....he wouldn't have been supplied. It's that simple.

Blame whoever you want.....the other guests in that hotel were not forced to take to drugs so him being clean is bollocks.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I think people have a level of human kindness in most cases



No one sets out to destroy themselves and their relationships with others



They try it they get hooked and the drugs take them over

You haven't read the point I was making properly

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

You can't bring these things to a personal level though......I would kill anyone who laid a finger on my kid....that would be illegal too...understandable maybe but still illegal.

I am not saying that drug dealing doesn't deserve any punishment, that's ridiculous to try and suggest otherwise

None of that changes the fact that Liam was demanding drugs. If he didn't ask for them....he wouldn't have been supplied. It's that simple.

Blame whoever you want.....the other guests in that hotel were not forced to take to drugs so him being clean is bollocks.

When it’s family it’s different when it’s a stranger you don’t care really
That’s the point I’m making

People also stupid things but he can’t pull drugs out of his arse in a foreign country
It’s easy to say the drug user is responsible and they are but they are the victim the drug dealers are as good as murderers

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

You haven't read the point I was making properly

I would have a level of sympathy for all drug users because ultimately their life is destroyed and it destroys every relationship they have had

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

When it’s family it’s different when it’s a stranger you don’t care really
That’s the point I’m making

People also stupid things but he can’t pull drugs out of his arse in a foreign country
It’s easy to say the drug user is responsible and they are but they are the victim the drug dealers are as good as murderers

I agree that when it's family emotions play a part but as none of us are related to Liam...I don't quite get your point.

It's not easy to say the drug user is responsible....its the bloody truth. I used to be party of the the party drug scene.....I actually know what I'm talking about, i have experienced recreational drug use amd how ut can spiral. Without users there would be no dealers.

Drug dealers are scum I completely agree.....but it's very rare for anyone to be forced to take drugs....particularly in the case of people like Liam.

Excusing users is dangerous. People are responsible for their own lives and need to take accountability for that without blaming everyone else

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

When it’s family it’s different when it’s a stranger you don’t care really
That’s the point I’m making

People also stupid things but he can’t pull drugs out of his arse in a foreign country
It’s easy to say the drug user is responsible and they are but they are the victim the drug dealers are as good as murderers

Of course he can....he has money he could buy anything he wanted.....she he doesn't cook crack in this country but he could get it of he wanted. Any Brit user abroad can get whatever they want if they are willing to pay for it

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

Of course he can....he has money he could buy anything he wanted.....she he doesn't cook crack in this country but he could get it of he wanted. Any Brit user abroad can get whatever they want if they are willing to pay for it

I know that but if people were not willing to sell him drugs he wouldn’t be able to get his hands on them

Drug dealers all should get long prison sentences

[Vanessa]

The fact that 5 people have been charged says a lot. These people are guilty.
Yes he chose his path, but I believe this death could have been prevented.

[arista]

[Ammi]

…I think for me with Liam Payne’s death is that it was a ‘sudden and violent’ death, which is always a huge shock factor, obviously….its more layered than his body failing with substance abuse and so it’s led for that added thing of ‘culpability and accountability’ to be looked at because he obviously wasn’t in a position/place of safety and had anyone caring for him ….but it wasn’t a place of medical care either, so it’s not something that the hotel staff could have foreseen with it all leading to what it did and they have a duty of care to their staff as well in keeping them safe if he was acting aggressively or dangerously etc…it just doesn’t feel very clear to determine these things for me because we just don’t know what led up to it all in terms of behaviour etc and so much to consider…it’s all very sad and tragic…

…substance abuse, though…obviously played a factor in awareness that can’t be dismissed either and those life/destructive choices that he made himself…Many of us have personal knowledge of substance addiction and it’s not that empathy isn’t there, I think it’s more that sadly that person becomes the addiction and it can then be no longer the person who you’re communicating either or trying to reach…it’s the addiction that you’re dealing with because the person has already been taken from you by that addiction….it really isn’t a black and white thing and the layers with Liam’s death have added complications also…

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

Drug dealers only bring drugs in for paying customers. No-one egged him on....drug dealing is supply and demand. He was addicted....but his own actions led to that addiction. It's very sad...I've seen friends lost to their addictions but to blame others is excusing what led to the addiction in the first place and that is someone making a conscious decision to start taking drugs.

[Dogeatdog]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

Drug dealers only bring drugs in for paying customers. No-one egged him on....drug dealing is supply and demand. He was addicted....but his own actions led to that addiction. It's very sad...I've seen friends lost to their addictions but to blame others is excusing what led to the addiction in the first place and that is someone making a conscious decision to start taking drugs.

Summed it up there pretty well I think Annie.

[thesheriff443]

It’s pure hypocrisy
If it’s a loved one that’s being dealt drugs then the dealer needs to be held responsible and dealt with

If it’s a stranger that’s being dealt drugs its the addict’s fault for taking drugs and you cant blame the dealer

[Glenn.]

Who has said that?

[bots]

I don't know enough about Payne's individual circumstances, but is it not really similar to Mathew Perry and Michael Jackson. Once you are on the list of a criminal dealer, if you are rich, your are going to be persistently targeted and exploited until they have sucked you dry. While they will do it to the less wealthy too, there is much more cash to be had from a multi millionaire

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It’s pure hypocrisy
If it’s a loved one that’s being dealt drugs then the dealer needs to be held responsible and dealt with

If it’s a stranger that’s being dealt drugs its the addict’s fault for taking drugs and you cant blame the dealer

You are simplifying and personalising it far too much whilst making a whole lot of assumptions there Sheriff.

As you brought MY son into this in a earlier post, I will use him as an example.

If he started taking drugs and then became an addict I would be devastated. I would blame myself and him first. I wouldn't blame the dealer for getting him addicted, that's on him for trying it and me for dropping the ball as a parent. I would despise the dealers for supplying him but I wouldn't blame them per se. Take out 1 dealer and there are a million others waiting to take their place. Addicts get proper treatment and get clean....there is no need for the dealer then.

I feel for Liams family....he wasn't a bad person. He went down a bad road which there for the grace of God I personally could have fell down when I was a lot younger. But the simple fact is his initial actions led to this.

If a smack head goes out and robs a house to feed their addiction, it's them who committed the crime.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by AnnieKristmas

You are simplifying and personalising it far too much whilst making a whole lot of assumptions there Sheriff.

As you brought MY son into this in a earlier post, I will use him as an example.

If he started taking drugs and then became an addict I would be devastated. I would blame myself and him first. I wouldn't blame the dealer for getting him addicted, that's on him for trying it and me for dropping the ball as a parent. I would despise the dealers for supplying him but I wouldn't blame them per se. Take out 1 dealer and there are a million others waiting to take their place. Addicts get proper treatment and get clean....there is no need for the dealer then.

I feel for Liams family....he wasn't a bad person. He went down a bad road which there for the grace of God I personally could have fell down when I was a lot younger. But the simple fact is his initial actions led to this.

If a smack head goes out and robs a house to feed their addiction, it's them who committed the crime.

The link between drugs prostitution and crime is universally known and those getting girls hooked on drugs to force them into prostitution

We need to make drug dealers/supplier’s as hated as paedaphiles

[Glenn.]

Why are you talking about prostitution? What has that got to do with it?

Are all prostitutes drug addicts? No