[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Its almost like they don't want a second term isn't it, no wonder Starmer didn't refer to the judgement at all...

Yes
This week
Parliament returns this Tuesday, 22nd April

So I am sure loads will try to drag this debate in.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes
This week
Parliament returns this Tuesday, 22nd April

So I am sure loads will try to drag this debate in.

I will be well pissed off if they waste more time on this, they have plenty to be getting on with, and apparently there will be a rebellion over the proposed disability cuts

[Cherie]

Director of For Women Scotland Susan Smith has declared that women are "not human shields" for "vulnerable men" following demonstrations across the capital in protest of the Supreme Court's ruling.

Following a challenge by the For Women group, the Supreme Court ruled that women are determined by "biological sex", not those who are transgender and simply identify as women.

Storming the capital on Saturday, transgender protesters demonstrated against the decision, choosing to graffiti on key women's rights figures - including suffragette Millicent Fawcett.

Discussing the ruling on GB News, Smith told host Camilla Tominey that the ruling was to simply "clarify" the legislation against those who have tried to "trespass across women's boundaries".

Smith explained: "We've got the clarity, that is what the Supreme Court ruling was, giving us that clarity. And people have really pushed and pushed and pushed and they have tried to trespass across women's boundaries.

"For a long time, women had been accommodating, they hadn't raised too many objections. And it was only when people really started to make our lives intolerable that we started to have to fight back."

Highlighting the women's argument further, Smith declared that women are "not human shields" for vulnerable men, and those who have been critical of women's only spaces have "no sympathy" for the women "unable to live their lives".

Smith told GB News: "I don't understand why a woman would be at risk in a men's space. And if they are at risk in a men's space, that's something that men have to start to deal with, because it shouldn't be up to women to protect men who might be vulnerable.

"There are plenty of men who are vulnerable for all sorts of reasons, not all of them people identify as being trans, and we're not human shields for them. And when they talk about not being able to live their lives, they have had no sympathy for the very many women who have not been able to live their lives."

Smith added: "They have not been able to go shopping because they can't use a mixed sex changing room, and that's especially the case, perhaps for ethnic and minority religious women. They've not had any sympathy for women who've been frightened to use a rape crisis shelter because it was headed up by a biological man.

"They've had no sympathy for these women who've been pushed right to the fringes because of their activism. And now they're trying to pull sob stories and try to make play on women's kindness. Well, we were kind for a very long time, and it got us into this mess."

When asked by Camilla Tominey if she is surprised by Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer's silence on the verdict, Smith claimed that many politicians "owe an apology" to women.

Smith explained: "I think a lot of politicians owe women an apology, and I think Keir Starmer is one of them. He did make some ridiculous comments about something like 1 per cent of women have penises.

"And I know that the Labour Party have stepped back a bit in recent times, and Keir Starmer has been conspicuously silent on it - I think a lot of politicians are afraid of some of the sorts of men that we saw out demonstrating yesterday. I think they're frightened of them, and they should be frightened of them, because a lot of them are dangerous people."

She concluded: "I am frightened, I'm terrified of them. But as mothers and grandmothers and young women, we've got an enormous amount of young women starting now to speak up at universities, and these are people who are actually at risk.

"He's the most powerful person in the country. He needs to stop being afraid of them and start to stand up for the people who need protection."




Perhaps someone can explain to me why a group protesting trans rights would choose to deface statues of womens rights figures @Glenn @Jessica in particular ....surely they dont want women to lose their rights...that cannot be so...these vulnerable transwomen

[Barry.]

I feel bad for trans people, they just want to have a normal life.

So this means trans men have to use woman’s bathroom too? Or will that be another red spot?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Barry.

I feel bad for trans people, they just want to have a normal life.

So this means trans men have to use woman’s bathroom too? Or will that be another red spot?

Parliament must clarify the new Rules.
This Tuesday.

No need to Panic.

[Barry.]

Originally Posted by arista

Parliament must clarify the new Rules.
This Tuesday.

No need to Panic.

Was I panicking there?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Barry.

Was I panicking there?

A little bit
only

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Barry.

I feel bad for trans people, they just want to have a normal life.

So this means trans men have to use woman’s bathroom too? Or will that be another red spot?

But you have no sympathy with women being locked up with men who choose to self ID while in custody for rape, or for women attending a rape crisis centre headed up by a transwoman, or for women in sport being beaten by transwomen who went through puberty, or for women made to feel uncomfortable by men just because they can etc etc....Baz everyone will still be able to pee don't worry

[Barry.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

But you have no sympathy with women being locked up with men who choose to self ID while in custody for rape, or for women attending a rape crisis centre headed up by a transwoman, or for women in sport being beaten by transwomen who went through puberty, or for women made to feel uncomfortable by men just because they can etc etc....Baz everyone will still be able to pee don't worry

Oh yes I worry about the men who pretend to be women to get in their prisons to abuse them, however I also feel bad for the trans woman who just wants to be them in the prison too. I see it from both sides but I don’t like that all trans women are put in the same box as those scumbags too

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Barry.

Oh yes I worry about the men who pretend to be women to get in their prisons to abuse them, however I also feel bad for the trans woman who just wants to be them in the prison too. I see it from both sides but I don’t like that all trans women are put in the same box as those scumbags too

Agree, self ID has been a mess and has brought out the scum of society unfortunately, I can see it from both sides as well, but honestly I think bathrooms are the least of both sides issues

[Maru]

Comes a point where people really don't care what they are being called, if newly designed social conventions were needing to be forced through by law, then it was never voluntary in the first place. Government has gone too far.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Director of For Women Scotland Susan Smith has declared that women are "not human shields" for "vulnerable men" following demonstrations across the capital in protest of the Supreme Court's ruling.

Following a challenge by the For Women group, the Supreme Court ruled that women are determined by "biological sex", not those who are transgender and simply identify as women.

Storming the capital on Saturday, transgender protesters demonstrated against the decision, choosing to graffiti on key women's rights figures - including suffragette Millicent Fawcett.

Discussing the ruling on GB News, Smith told host Camilla Tominey that the ruling was to simply "clarify" the legislation against those who have tried to "trespass across women's boundaries".

Smith explained: "We've got the clarity, that is what the Supreme Court ruling was, giving us that clarity. And people have really pushed and pushed and pushed and they have tried to trespass across women's boundaries.

"For a long time, women had been accommodating, they hadn't raised too many objections. And it was only when people really started to make our lives intolerable that we started to have to fight back."

Highlighting the women's argument further, Smith declared that women are "not human shields" for vulnerable men, and those who have been critical of women's only spaces have "no sympathy" for the women "unable to live their lives".

Smith told GB News: "I don't understand why a woman would be at risk in a men's space. And if they are at risk in a men's space, that's something that men have to start to deal with, because it shouldn't be up to women to protect men who might be vulnerable.

"There are plenty of men who are vulnerable for all sorts of reasons, not all of them people identify as being trans, and we're not human shields for them. And when they talk about not being able to live their lives, they have had no sympathy for the very many women who have not been able to live their lives."

Smith added: "They have not been able to go shopping because they can't use a mixed sex changing room, and that's especially the case, perhaps for ethnic and minority religious women. They've not had any sympathy for women who've been frightened to use a rape crisis shelter because it was headed up by a biological man.

"They've had no sympathy for these women who've been pushed right to the fringes because of their activism. And now they're trying to pull sob stories and try to make play on women's kindness. Well, we were kind for a very long time, and it got us into this mess."

When asked by Camilla Tominey if she is surprised by Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer's silence on the verdict, Smith claimed that many politicians "owe an apology" to women.

Smith explained: "I think a lot of politicians owe women an apology, and I think Keir Starmer is one of them. He did make some ridiculous comments about something like 1 per cent of women have penises.

"And I know that the Labour Party have stepped back a bit in recent times, and Keir Starmer has been conspicuously silent on it - I think a lot of politicians are afraid of some of the sorts of men that we saw out demonstrating yesterday. I think they're frightened of them, and they should be frightened of them, because a lot of them are dangerous people."

She concluded: "I am frightened, I'm terrified of them. But as mothers and grandmothers and young women, we've got an enormous amount of young women starting now to speak up at universities, and these are people who are actually at risk.

"He's the most powerful person in the country. He needs to stop being afraid of them and start to stand up for the people who need protection."




Perhaps someone can explain to me why a group protesting trans rights would choose to deface statues of womens rights figures @Glenn @Jessica in particular ....surely they dont want women to lose their rights...that cannot be so...these vulnerable transwomen

I've seen multiple videos of trans people and their loved ones literally bawling crying, feeling lost and hopeless because of the change of the definition of woman. People are lashing out, of course they don't want more rights taken away, they want to upset terfs, they are crying out for the hate to stop.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

But you have no sympathy with women being locked up with men who choose to self ID while in custody for rape, or for women attending a rape crisis centre headed up by a transwoman, or for women in sport being beaten by transwomen who went through puberty, or for women made to feel uncomfortable by men just because they can etc etc....Baz everyone will still be able to pee don't worry

That's a problem with men though, trans women are not to blame for men lying, it's not their fault, they're being punished because of people who are taking advantage of systems that they need to live their lives and be safe.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

That's a problem with men though, trans women are not to blame for men lying, it's not their fault, they're being punished because of people who are taking advantage of systems that they need to live their lives and be safe.

You can make all the distinctions you like between men and trans women, but no matter how you feel, every single trans women ever, then, now, and in future generations start out as a man/men. I just find it completely odd how you say "well, it's men who are to blame, not trans women", biologically they're the exact same thing.

Be free, live your life, don't get me wrong, but you're looking at this whole situation from a black and white standpoint. It is a very complex situation, but at times it really isn't.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

That's a problem with men though, trans women are not to blame for men lying, it's not their fault, they're being punished because of people who are taking advantage of systems that they need to live their lives and be safe.

Transwomen are biological men though no matter how hard you try to emotionally blackmail people into a corner it's a fact that will never change. The only requirement to being a transwomen is that you're biologically male.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Swan

You can make all the distinctions you like between men and trans women, but no matter how you feel, every single trans women ever, then, now, and in future generations start out as a man/men. I just find it completely odd how you say "well, it's men who are to blame, not trans women", biologically they're the exact same thing.

Be free, live your life, don't get me wrong, but you're looking at this whole situation from a black and white standpoint. It is a very complex situation, but at times it really isn't.

It’s quite bold to say “you’re looking at it from a black and white POV” while simultaneously refusing to recognise the nuanced and real distinction between a trans women and a cis men.

People are more than their genitals and reproductive systems. The reason trans people exist is because their mental identity doesn’t match their physical identity, therein lies the key difference between a trans women and a cis man. Just because you might be happy to disregard that as valid, it doesn’t make it so.

I do wonder is those celebrating realise that the next time a cis women goes into a woman’s only space, and is reported because someone thinks she’s trans, it will be a male police officer who strip searches her to check, unless she carries her birth certificate with her everywhere she goes. Horrific.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by BBXX

It’s quite bold to say “you’re looking at it from a black and white POV” while simultaneously refusing to recognise the nuanced and real distinction between a trans women and a cis men.

People are more than their genitals and reproductive systems. The reason trans people exist is because their mental identity doesn’t match their physical identity, therein lies the key difference between a trans women and a cis man. Just because you might be happy to disregard that as valid, it doesn’t make it so.

I do wonder is those celebrating realise that the next time a cis women goes into a woman’s only space, and is reported because someone thinks she’s trans, it will be a male police officer who strip searches her to check, unless she carries her birth certificate with her everywhere she goes. Horrific.

Did i not say it's a complex situation in that very same sentence?

BIB - One, im not celebrating, this affects biological women, and trans women, not me. Two, that scenario you're describing has never, ever happened, it's not even very rare, it's just not a thing.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Transwomen are biological men though no matter how hard you try to emotionally blackmail people into a corner it's a fact that will never change. The only requirement to being a transwomen is that you're biologically male.

A gay cis man has the same biological real estate than a straight cis man, but I am sure you'd be willing to agree that they are really not a sexual-assault risk to cis women, right? So why can't the same be suggested for trans women?

Sexual assault and abuse to cis women at the hand of cis men is a mentally-led issue, not because they have a penis, which is why it's completely valid to say trans-women are not to blame for the sexual crimes at the hands of straight cis men in the same way it's valid to say gay men are not to blame for the sexual assault crimes from straight men.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Swan

Did i not say it's a complex situation in that very same sentence?

"but at times it really isn't" and you seemed to be implying Jessica's point wasn't.

Two, that scenario you're describing has never, ever happened, it's not even very rare, it's just not a thing.

Not previously no, because it's not been illegal for trans women to be in women's only spaces in the way it is now.

It's already been said that male officers will now strip search trans women. So now, if a cis women is accused of being trans she has one of two options:

1. Be strip searched by a male officer or
2. Prove she is a cis woman (how?)

One is worse than the other of course, but both are horrible scenarios.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

A gay cis man has the same biological real estate than a straight cis man, but I am sure you'd be willing to agree that they are really not a sexual-assault risk to cis women, right? So why can't the same be suggested for trans women?

Sexual assault and abuse to cis women at the hand of cis men is a mentally-led issue, not because they have a penis, which is why it's completely valid to say trans-women are not to blame for the sexual crimes at the hands of straight cis men in the same way it's valid to say gay men are not to blame for the sexual assault crimes from straight men.

Sure but as with transwomen there's no way to tell if a gay man is actually gay or just pretending to be gay, that's why all gay men are not allowed in female only spaces. Safeguarding bans all biological males to protect women even though most biological men won't be a threat.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sure but as with transwomen there's no way to tell if a gay man is actually gay or just pretending to be gay, that's why all gay men are not allowed in female only spaces. Safeguarding bans all biological males to protect women even though most biological men won't be a threat.

Gay men identify as men, that's why they aren't allowed in women's spaces.

Until now, of course. Now identity doesn't matter so now a gay trans man will be in allowed in women's spaces, beard and testosterone patch included.

I said I'd stop but I'm too opinionated but I do feel like I am just repeating myself, which is my bad. We're allowed not to agree, I don't want to make it seem like my incessant opinions are trying to convince you otherwise, it's too emotive and complex a subject for people just to change their minds because of a stranger on the internet

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Gay men identify as men, that's why they aren't allowed in women's spaces.

Until now, of course. Now identity doesn't matter so now a gay trans man will be in allowed in women's spaces, beard and testosterone patch included.

I said I'd stop but I'm too opinionated but I do feel like I am just repeating myself, which is my bad. We're allowed not to agree, I don't want to make it seem like my incessant opinions are trying to convince you otherwise, it's too emotive and complex a subject for people just to change their minds because of a stranger on the internet

Now you can see why we're jaded, no matter how much logic you use it won't change a thing here. Trans women are the easy target and they'll always be ridiculed and invalidated on this forum. It's incredibly frustrating and it's been going on for years. I know trans people both irl and online, I've even lived in the same household as a trans woman and I've never felt threatened by any of them. However the people demonising them have zero personal experience or anecdotes related to the so called villains (human beings) we're discussing.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Now you can see why we're jaded, no matter how much logic you use it won't change a thing here. Trans women are the easy target and they'll always be ridiculed and invalidated on this forum. It's incredibly frustrating and it's been going on for years. I know trans people both irl and online, I've even lived in the same household as a trans woman and I've never felt threatened by any of them. However the people demonising them have zero personal experience or anecdotes related to the so called villains (human beings) we're discussing.

Logic mmhmm

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Now you can see why we're jaded, no matter how much logic you use it won't change a thing here. Trans women are the easy target and they'll always be ridiculed and invalidated on this forum. It's incredibly frustrating and it's been going on for years. I know trans people both irl and online, I've even lived in the same household as a trans woman and I've never felt threatened by any of them. However the people demonising them have zero personal experience or anecdotes related to the so called villains (human beings) we're discussing.

Not true Jessica, you have no idea about my real experiences, but I can tell you your assumptions are wrong.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Gay men identify as men, that's why they aren't allowed in women's spaces.

Until now, of course. Now identity doesn't matter so now a gay trans man will be in allowed in women's spaces, beard and testosterone patch included.

I said I'd stop but I'm too opinionated but I do feel like I am just repeating myself, which is my bad. We're allowed not to agree, I don't want to make it seem like my incessant opinions are trying to convince you otherwise, it's too emotive and complex a subject for people just to change their minds because of a stranger on the internet

Gay men are biological men as are transwomen. Women need female only spaces because of biological differences