[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Livia

I have respect for other human beings. That doesn't mean we should accept a million of them every year to come and live here, and certainly not those who arrive illegally.

That's a fair point.

And tbf, you don't seem to be the type of person that would take it to a violent level anyway.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I see Reform much as you do Mock.

Although in my conversations with some of the Reform supporters I've come,(unfortunately for me), across I see them even more concerning than what you fear.

I think tbf to a lot of Reform voters, I think that they're scared because the country is in a really bad way (due to Brexit, COVID etc,) and our two major parties being a shadow of their former selves going from one disaster to the next.

I mean I can't believe these two parties historically have Clement Atlee and Winston Churchill in their parties, and now it's Starmer and Badenoch, who have debates about what they eat for lunch.

Unfortunately like with any bad thing that comes to the forefront, we have to blame Labour and Tories as to why people are looking towards Reform, and therefore getting more politically extreme because of it.

I get that there are bad apples within the supporter base (like you've mentioned Joey) but even they have probably become that way due to years of disappointment from our two main parties.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I think tbf to a lot of Reform voters, I think that they're scared because the country is in a really bad way (due to Brexit, COVID etc,) and our two major parties being a shadow of their former selves going from one disaster to the next.

I mean I can't believe these two parties historically have Clement Atlee and Winston Churchill in their parties, and now it's Starmer and Badenoch, who have debates about what they eat for lunch.

Unfortunately like with any bad thing that comes to the forefront, we have to blame Labour and Tories as to why people are looking towards Reform, and therefore getting more politically extreme because of it.

I get that there are bad apples within the supporter base (like you've mentioned Joey) but even they have probably become that way due to years of disappointment from our two main parties.

I agree, the failures of ALL Parties that's been in government because I put the LibDems in there too, for the really bad things they supported during their 5 shared power coalition years in government.

However instead of both Conservative and Labour not standing up to Reform via at present, Labour not having a clue how to play it.
Badenoch with the Conservatives is more just running up Farage's and Reform's backside.

Plus too, there's how to deal with a deranged and unhinged more like lunatic in the USA at present.

However we've had in the last 80 years mainly capitalist, right wing government for nearly 50 of those years.
If right wing policies are the best for the UK, that doesn't show that.
So for me, to even look at a more far right Party like Reform doesn't seem in any shape or form to be a wise choice.
Not that I could myself ever choose Reform, I've had Reform supporters, dead seriously to mine and others faces, tell me, '' the more who drown crossing the channel the better''.
That's sick.
However then, to a challenge that they are human beings too, the next response is, from those Reform supporters that '' they don't see immigrants as PEOPLE, they're just numbers needing to be got rid of''.

Not a chance I myself would ever want to be associated with people like that .
No way at all.
Plus too, I've never liked or trusted Farage.
His misleading in the EU referendum was more than enough to see his faults.

So unless there is a great improvement over the years by this government, or the Conservatives can get a better leader and move back to a more moderate position as to policies with less ugly rhetoric and not just follow Reform.
I haven't a clue where I could now settle politically.

Certainly not the cranky Greens with 2 leaders and policies they never really spell out.
Some of their ideas sound like madness.
Plus the LibDems more seem to just clown around.

Your last paragraph makes depressing reading because it's very valid, insightful and explains a fair bit.
I just cannot see where there's any answers from Farage's Reform.
He blamed the EU, scapegoating the free movement of people from the EU for the UKs ills.
Now we've left and that was stopped.
He cannot blame that any more, so now he's scapegoating not only those in the dinghy's coming over, however other migrants too of those from other Countries and cultures.
His and Reform's more prejudical rhetoric is awful in my view.
It's really sad that voters in the UK feel there's anything much of decency about Farage's Reform.
I just cannot ever and neither would I want to, subscribe to not wanting to more protect and respect other human beings.
I wouldn't want to also scapegoat them and try to whip up distrust and even hate against them divisively just because they're another culture or from other Countries.

I find it very sinister and unnecessarily so too.
That's my view anyway.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I agree, the failures of ALL Parties that's been in government because I put the LibDems in there too, for the really bad things they supported during their 5 shared power coalition years in government.

However instead of both Conservative and Labour not standing up to Reform via at present, Labour not having a clue how to play it.
Badenoch with the Conservatives is more just running up Farage's and Reform's backside.

Plus too, there's how to deal with a deranged and unhinged more like lunatic in the USA at present.

However we've had in the last 80 years mainly capitalist, right wing government for nearly 50 of those years.
If right wing policies are the best for the UK, that doesn't show that.
So for me, to even look at a more far right Party like Reform doesn't seem in any shape or form to be a wise choice.
Not that I could myself ever choose Reform, I've had Reform supporters, dead seriously to mine and others faces, tell me, '' the more who drown crossing the channel the better''.
That's sick.
However then, to a challenge that they are human beings too, the next response is, from those Reform supporters that '' they don't see immigrants as PEOPLE, they're just numbers needing to be got rid of''.

Not a chance I myself would ever want to be associated with people like that .
No way at all.
Plus too, I've never liked or trusted Farage.
His misleading in the EU referendum was more than enough to see his faults.

So unless there is a great improvement over the years by this government, or the Conservatives can get a better leader and move back to a more moderate position as to policies with less ugly rhetoric and not just follow Reform.
I haven't a clue where I could now settle politically.

Certainly not the cranky Greens with 2 leaders and policies they never really spell out.
Some of their ideas sound like madness.
Plus the LibDems more seem to just clown around.

Your last paragraph makes depressing reading because it's very valid, insightful and explains a fair bit.
I just cannot see where there's any answers from Farage's Reform.
He blamed the EU, scapegoating the free movement of people from the EU for the UKs ills.
Now we've left and that was stopped.
He cannot blame that any more, so now he's scapegoating not only those in the dinghy's coming over, however other migrants too of those from other Countries and cultures.
His and Reform's more prejudical rhetoric is awful in my view.
It's really sad that voters in the UK feel there's anything much of decency about Farage's Reform.
I just cannot ever and neither would I want to, subscribe to not wanting to more protect and respect other human beings.
I wouldn't want to also scapegoat them and try to whip up distrust and even hate against them divisively just because they're another culture or from other Countries.

I find it very sinister and unnecessarily so too.
That's my view anyway.

I 100% agree with you on the Lib Dems as they got the ball rolling in our declining years of the country in that coalition with the Tories.

And I personally don't like Farage either, he is manipulating scared people into thinking that he is going to bring the UK back to it's best, but when the one thing he helped contribute to the country (i.e Brexit) has slowly killed our economy over the last decade, it doesn't scream someone that knows how to run this country.

And those particular Reform supporters sound horrible.

[Ammi]

…in regards to the original story…I don’t know anything about this source and how reliable and I won’t post the whole article but I’ll give a link to it…I’ll just pick out some of what’s been reported as an update about the attacker….


The 39-year-old woman, who hails from the northern state of Lower Saxony, was released from a psychiatric hospital only the day before the stabbing.

On Sunday a spokeswoman for prosecutors told dpa, the suspect admitted to the act in front of a magistrate.

According to the Lower Saxony ministry, police initiated criminal proceedings against the woman in several cases last year.

"She appeared at police stations several times, showing clear signs of mental illness," a spokesman for the Health Ministry in the state of Lower Saxony said.

Following an incident at the beginning of May this year, a court ordered her to be placed in the Cuxhaven psychiatric hospital, where she received treatment for three weeks.

According to the clinic, the woman was released because there were no medical findings at the time of her discharge to justify further treatment.

Authorities did not comment on the nature of her illness, citing privacy concerns and medical confidentiality. However, before patients are released from a psychiatric ward, doctors have to consider whether they could pose a danger to themselves or others.

Authorities in Lower Saxony say there was no indication that the suspect may have used a knife in previous incidents, nor does she have a firearms licence.

She is accused of 15 cases of attempted manslaughter combined with grievous bodily harm. The charges relate to the people who were directly injured with the knife and suffered cuts or stab wounds of varying severity, according to police.



…attempted manslaughter/not attempted murder…?…so she carried out the attacks the day after she was released from a mental facility and deemed to be not a danger to the public…?..

…full article…

https://www.dw.com/en/hamburg-knife-...ice/a-72665609

[Oliver_W]

How can someone attempt manslaughter? I thought it meant unintended, or at least incidental or consequential, killing?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

How can someone attempt manslaughter? I thought it meant unintended, or at least incidental or consequential, killing?

I'm confused as well.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

How can someone attempt manslaughter? I thought it meant unintended, or at least incidental or consequential, killing?

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I'm confused as well.

…I’ve been reading about it and how it’s defined…and (…I think…)…it’s because she’s deemed as mentally unstable therefore ‘clear intent’ can’t be established…I’m guessing that’s what it is in this case anyway…

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…I’ve been reading about it and how it’s defined…and (…I think…)…it’s because she’s deemed as mentally unstable therefore ‘clear intent’ can’t be established…I’m guessing that’s what it is in this case anyway…

That makes sense tbf.

Thanks for finding out for us.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…I’ve been reading about it and how it’s defined…and (…I think…)…it’s because she’s deemed as mentally unstable therefore ‘clear intent’ can’t be established…I’m guessing that’s what it is in this case anyway…

Surely that just begs a "not guilty by reason of mental disorder" or something?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…I’ve been reading about it and how it’s defined…and (…I think…)…it’s because she’s deemed as mentally unstable therefore ‘clear intent’ can’t be established…I’m guessing that’s what it is in this case anyway…

That post you presented on her past was incredibly informative.
Devastating though too.

You are right, in the UK, mental conditions can be taken into consideration of charges in such crimes.
It would generally fall under something like:- manslaughter, with the defence of diminished responsibility.

[Livia]

Why are dangerously deranged people walking around free to murder? I see Germany's 'care in the community' scheme is on the same level as ours.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Livia

Why are dangerously deranged people walking around free to murder? I see Germany's 'care in the community' scheme is on the same level as ours.

I heard on the grapevine that there are loads of dangerous European criminals( including gang bosses ) safely hiding in Gtr Manchester housing estates !!