[arista]

BBC News Text:
["PM Starmer told to sack legal chief over 'Nazi' slur"
reads the front page of the Daily Mail.
Sir Keir Starmer is reportedly facing
"mounting pressure" to "sack"
his attorney general
for apparently comparing right-wing
politicians to Nazis. Lord Hermer's
comments come after he reportedly
criticised Reform UK and the Tories
for saying Britain should quit institutions
like the European Convention
on Human Rights.
Columnist Sarah Vine - and ex-wife
of Conservative MP Michael Gove - teases some
advice from her forthcoming memoir
for "How NOT to be a political wife".]






[The attorney general has apologised
for a “clumsy” remark that compared
Conservative and Reform calls to disregard
international treaties and quit the
European convention of human rights (ECHR)
with the early days of Nazi Germany.

In a speech on Thursday, Richard Hermer
defended the government’s commitment
to abide by international law and likened
those who wanted to ignore it to
German jurists in the 1930s,
such as Carl Schmitt.

His words were criticised by
Kemi Badenoch and Nigel Farage.

The Conservative leader accused
Lord Hermer of “starting from a
position of self-loathing,
where Britain is always wrong and
everyone else is right” and
demanded an apology.]


https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025...eform-to-nazis

[Mystic Mock]

We can't keep having people being fired from their jobs because they've said something that some people haven't liked.

If this was the left trying to push for a right wing politician to be fired for controversial comments, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing more people defend the person's right to "free speech."

[arista]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

We can't keep having people being fired from their jobs because they've said something that some people haven't liked.

If this was the left trying to push for a right wing politician to be fired for controversial comments, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing more people defend the person's right to "free speech."

But this Old Labour Lord
regrets using the Nazi term.

Using Nazi
upsets more than what you call "some people"

[Oliver_W]

People should be allowed to say idiotic things, and potentially learn from them, rather than automatically being fired.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

People should be allowed to say idiotic things, and potentially learn from them, rather than automatically being fired.

No
He is High Up

a Labour Lord


Attorney General
The Rt Hon Lord Hermer KC

Calling MP's in the UK 1939 Nazi's


Under PM Starmer

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by arista

But this Old Labour Lord
regrets using the Nazi term.

Using Nazi
upsets more than what you call "some people"

But where does it stop?

I feel like people get fired from their jobs the first mistake that they make nowadays.

Do I agree with his opinion? Heck no! As it's very politically extreme for my taste.

But instead of sacking him why not instead reprimand him? And if he does anything else wrong in the future then sack him.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

We can't keep having people being fired from their jobs because they've said something that some people haven't liked.

If this was the left trying to push for a right wing politician to be fired for controversial comments, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing more people defend the person's right to "free speech."

What he said about right wing politicians I'm very sadly not sure that he's wrong in his description about SOME.

The ECHR was put in place by people and minds that had lived through AND seen the horrors that resulted from prejudice and scapegoating others of other cultures
Using power to eventually destroy and then move on to others they saw as undesirables too
It was put in place with whatever problems it may cause, to ensure protection and respect of ALL human beings.
To hopefully help ensure never again could such terror and horror be inflicted worldwide again.

Now we have these modern upstarts who think they know much better than the likes of Churchill and other leaders of the time, so would make the ECHR irrelevant and leave it.
I think this guy is more correct to criticise that.and those who advocate leaving it.

I for one would NEVER trust any politicians or Parties that wanted to leave it.
It's there to protect and respect all human beings.
Even though it won't get everything right.
The reasons of wanting to leave and therefore not subscribing to wanting to protect and respect ALL human life, in my view can only come from more sinister and worrying thinking.
Which hopefully would be rejected.
I'd hope for that anyhow.

So this guy may actually have a more valid point.
Nazis should be mentioned more.

it must never EVER be forgotten the horrors the Nazis inflicted on the World, from hate and scapegoating of firstly the Jewish people in the worst horrific ways imaginable plus then moving on in addition to other groups of people they saw as undesirables too.
What they were, what they stood for, what they despicably did to other Human beings, should never be forgotten and the word nazi be the thing hated and reviled for ALL time.

That whole last paragraph were words drummed into me by one of my Grandfathers.
I've never forgotten them, never will and always will agree with him on it.
It's also why I'd never support anyone wanting to leave the ECHR
No matter its faults, it was put in place for a major reason.
To stop using power to not protect and not respect all human beings.
Put in place by far better and more experienced minds then, than there is anywhere in the World in this present time as to minds and thinking.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

People should be allowed to say idiotic things, and potentially learn from them, rather than automatically being fired.

100%

[arista]

"leave the ECHR"


That is not a Nazi thing to do, Joey.


It is a move to get Murder Criminals out of the UK
forever.
And many other important measures


At the Next General Election
so much can change Fast.

Like the Public Voted Brexit

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

What he said about right wing politicians I'm very sadly not sure that he's wrong in his description about SOME.

The ECHR was put in place by people and minds that had lived through AND seen the horrors that resulted from prejudice and scapegoating others of other cultures
Using power to eventually destroy and then move on to other they sawvas undesirables too
It was put in place with whatever problems it may cause, to ensure protection and respect of ALL human beings.
To hopefully help ensure never again could such terror and horror be inflicted worldwide again.

Now we have these modern upstarts who think they know much better than the likes of Churchill and other leaders of the time, so would make the ECHR irrelevant and leave it.
I think this guy is more correct to criticise that.and those who advocate leaving it.

I for one would NEVER trust any politicians or Parties that wanted to leave it.
It's there to protect and respect all human beings.
Even though it won't get everything right.
The reasons of wanting to leave and therefore not subscribing to wanting to protect and respect ALL human life, in my view can only come from more sinister and worrying thinking.
Which hopefully wouybe rejected.
I'd hope for that anyhow.

So this guy may actually have a more valid point.
Nazis should be mentioned more.

it must never EVER be forgotten the horrors the Nazis inflicted on the World, from hate and scapegoating of firstly the Jewish people in the worst horrific ways imaginable plus then moving on in addition to other groups of people they saw as undesirables too.
What they were, what they stood for, what they despicably did to other Human beings, should never be forgotten and the word nazi be the thing hated and reviled for ALL time.

That whole last paragraph were words drummed into me by one of my Grandfathers.
I've never forgotten them, never will and always will agree with him on it.
It's also why I'd never support anyone wanting to leave the ECHR
No matter his faults, it was put in place for a major reason.
By far better and more experienced minds then, than there is anywhere in the World in this present time as to minds and thinking.

I agree with your Grandfather's words 100%

And I do agree with you that Politicians that want to leave the ECHR have got to be questioned, because what alternative do they want put in place?

That is something that everyone needs to think about in the days to come.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

"leave the ECHR"


That is not a Nazi thing to do, Joey.


It is a move to get Murder Criminals out of the UK
forever.


At the Next General Election
so much can change Fast.

Like the Public Voted Brexit

I disagree with you totally.

I have not the slightest doubt whatsoever that the ECHR would have been 100% detested by the Nazis, they'd never have wanted it in place .
You can brush that off and deny it all you like.

Had it been in place before the war and the Nazis coming to power they'd have left it absolutely.
No doubt at all.

I see no difference in that to those who advocate the UK, (one of the architects of the ECHR), now leaving it.
The Nazis used suspicion, distrust and scapegoating of the Jewish people for the ills in the economy and crimes committed too.
To gain power from that scapegoating too.
Then whip up nothing but hate against those human beings adding others to the tally too.

Sound like any other leader and party at present?
Because it damn well does to me.

[arista]

No Joey
You are looking at this through Labour eyes

Will they win another election?

[bots]

In a democracy, people are allowed to have conflicting opinions and to express them freely. The moment that freedom is gone, we may as well not pretend that we still have a democracy

[Livia]

Let them say what they like. Show us who they are and that they'll freely demonstrate that they know absolutely nothing about nazis nor 1930s Germany, just to make a tenuous point.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

Let them say what they like. Show us who they are and that they'll freely demonstrate that they know absolutely nothing about nazis nor 1930s Germany, just to make a tenuous point.

i would rather we know what people think than them hiding and plotting in secret

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bots

i would rather we know what people think than them hiding and plotting in secret

Me too... Let them speak, we'll judge them for ourselves.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

No Joey
You are looking at this through Labour eyes

Will they win another election?

Don't talk nonsense please arista.
I'm looking at it from MY principles and my eyes.
No one else's.

I personally now don't care who wins the next election as long as the result is that it's impossible for Farage's vile Reform lot taking power.
Because I think they are in a hidden sinister way very dangerous .
The more Reform supporters I have the misfortune to come across, the more I'm appalled at the vast majority of their views against other human beings.
I detest prejudice, always have, always will and will NEVER support anyone who I believe is.
I'd want nothing whatsoever to do with anyone I believe is prejudiced either.

As for winning another election, that, at this time is the most ridiculous of questions from yourself surprisingly.
No one, not even you, can have a real clue of what will be, or what state the World will be in up to a year's time, never mind over 4 YEARS !!!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Let them say what they like. Show us who they are and that they'll freely demonstrate that they know absolutely nothing about nazis nor 1930s Germany, just to make a tenuous point.

Livia, lots of people know a lot about Nazi Germany not just yourself.
All my life I've heard from Uncles, Grandparents neighbours and many others of the horrors of Nazi Germany.
Who FOUGHT to beat them and actually wipe them off the face of the earth with their hateful prejudice and actual hate against some other Human beings, they saw as undesirables.
Hopefully never to see the like come around again.

I can see signs of that prejudical hate against some other human beings starting again now, just even from the scapegoating elements.
It's something I neither want to see nor want either.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Don't talk nonsense please arista.
I'm looking at it from MY principles and my eyes.
No one else's.

I personally now don't care who wins the next election as long as the result is that it's impossible for Farage's vile Reform lot taking power.
Because I think they are in a hidden sinister way very dangerous .
The more Reform supporters I have the misfortune to come across, the more I'm appalled at the vast majority of their views against other human beings.
I detest prejudice, always have, always will and will NEVER support anyone who I believe is.
I'd want nothing whatsoever to do with anyone I believe is prejudiced either.

As for winning another election, that, at this time is the most ridiculous of questions from yourself surprisingly.
No one, not even you, can have a real clue of what will be, or what state the World will be in up to a year's time, never mind over 4 YEARS !!!

Joey
A hell of a lot can change in 4 years.

I fully respect you hating Farage.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Livia, lots of people know a lot about Nazi Germany not just yourself.
All my life I've heard from Uncles, Grandparents neighbours and many others of the horrors of Nazi Germany.
Who FOUGHT to beat them and actually wipe them off the face of the earth with their hateful prejudice and actual hate against some other Human beings, they saw as undesirables.
Hopefully never to see the like come around again.

I can see signs of that prejudical hate against some other human beings starting again now, just even from the scapegoating elements.
It's something I neither want to see nor want either.

I never for one minute suggested I know more about the Nazis and 1930s Germany than anyone else. But when someone likens this country now to what happened then it demonstrates to me how little they must know. Or, they're using that as a stick to beat someone they disagree with. Either way, they've lost their argument, just like Godwin suggests.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I never for one minute suggested I know more about the Nazis and 1930s Germany than anyone else. But when someone likens this country now to what happened then it demonstrates to me how little they must know. Or, they're using that as a stick to beat someone they disagree with. Either way, they've lost their argument, just like Godwin suggests.

The rise of the Nazis didn't start with a bang.
It was built up from sowing seeds of distrust, suspicion and then scapegoating other human beings.
For the ills and crimes in Germany.

Seeing other human beings, not as people, however only as undesirable numbers behind to be got rid of.
If you cannot see the similarities of them to now, that's really sad.
However that's your position, obviously I cannot alter that.

The attitude and the rhetoric of Reform supporters I have absolutely no wish whatsoever to communicate with.
So now try to avoid absolutely.
However those of them who have indicated directly to myself, that the more that drown in the channel the better.
Plus, they don't see migrants as human beings, they're just unwanted numbers that they care not a jot what happens to them.

Well, I'm grateful to myself and to the far better influences I've had all through my life, that I'd never ever want to be associated with anyone who thought like that.
Not a chance, never in my lifetime.
Not a chance.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Joey
A hell of a lot can change in 4 years.

I fully respect you hating Farage.

Indeed.
I hate Farage's politics, I'm not a hypocrite, I've never liked him, all through the EU debate when his scapegoating then was to the EU and the free movement of those from EU Countries.
Now it's others he's scapegoating since that ceased.

He's no different now to then except he is smelling power.
He's still, IN MY VIEW, that same narcissist with dubious thinking on some other human beings.
I could never support Reform and Farage.
Re the ECHR policy.
Their sinister prejudical stance against migrants.
Their ideas of a paid by health insurance health service similar to the USA's.
One other thing too, that not many sadly would be in the least bothered about is Farage's love for hunting with dogs, and his attendance at hunts.
Sucking up to the vile foxhunting lot.

For me, there's nothing to like about Farage.
He's in my view dangerously so, only divisive in worrying ways..

I haven't a clue what he's like as a person as to family or friends.
Thankfully I don't and never will know him personally.
However from everything I've noted about him, there's not one thing I have admired about him.
That was so years ago, it hasn't changed, I'm not a hypocrite.

Plus I'm still waiting for his lie to happen about Turkey would be imminently joining the EU in 2016, with if we didn't leave the EU then we'd have hundreds of thousands of Turks coming to the UK.

9 YEARS on, Turkey still isn't in the EU, still no nearer really to be either.
His prejudice is sickening and worrying.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The rise of the Nazis didn't start with a bang.
It was built up from sowing seeds of distrust, suspicion and then scapegoating other human beings.
For the ills and crimes in Germany.

Seeing other human beings, not as people, however only as undesirable numbers behind to be got rid of.
If you cannot see the similarities of them to now, that's really sad.
However that's your position, obviously I cannot alter that.

The attitude and the rhetoric of Reform supporters I have absolutely no wish whatsoever to communicate with.
So now try to avoid absolutely.
However those of them who have indicated directly to myself, that the more that drown in the channel the better.
Plus, they don't see migrants as human beings, they're just unwanted numbers that they care not a jot what happens to them.

Well, I'm grateful to myself and to the far better influences I've had all through my life, that I'd never ever want to be associated with anyone who thought like that.
Not a chance, never in my lifetime.
Not a chance.

The problem is joey migrants are crossing many safe countries and paying thousands to get on a boat to get to this country to take advantage of it

Where did they get that money from to pay the people traffickers?

They are then being kept in luxury hotels while vulnerable pensioners can’t heat their homes after they have spent their life’s paying into the system that has betrayed them

Migrants are people but very few are genuine

[Crimson Dynamo]

Benefits claims by households with at least one foreign national have doubled to nearly £1 billion a month in the past three years, government figures show.

Households with at least one claimant who is a foreign national received £941 million in March this year, up from £461 million in March 2022, representing nearly a sixth of the month’s Universal Credit payments.

The figures are likely to reinforce calls for restrictions on benefits for migrants, which Angela Rayner, the Deputy Prime Minister, urged Rachel Reeves to consider in a leaked memo seen by The Telegraph.

Experts suggested the increase reflected a surge in the number of asylum seekers being granted refugee status and in net migration.

Foreign nationals become eligible for Universal Credit and other benefits on the same terms as British citizens once they are granted either indefinite leave to remain or refugee status.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The rise of the Nazis didn't start with a bang.
It was built up from sowing seeds of distrust, suspicion and then scapegoating other human beings.
For the ills and crimes in Germany.

Seeing other human beings, not as people, however only as undesirable numbers behind to be got rid of.
If you cannot see the similarities of them to now, that's really sad.
However that's your position, obviously I cannot alter that.

The attitude and the rhetoric of Reform supporters I have absolutely no wish whatsoever to communicate with.
So now try to avoid absolutely.
However those of them who have indicated directly to myself, that the more that drown in the channel the better.
Plus, they don't see migrants as human beings, they're just unwanted numbers that they care not a jot what happens to them.

Well, I'm grateful to myself and to the far better influences I've had all through my life, that I'd never ever want to be associated with anyone who thought like that.
Not a chance, never in my lifetime.
Not a chance.

A thousand migrants have arrived here today. It is unsustainable. I don't know any Reform supporter who want to see migrants drown in the channel so to tar everyone with the same brush is a little short sighted. But where are we going to put them all? Who's going to pay for it? Right now they're being housed in front of our own people causing discontent. Resources are finite, this cannot continue. The choice seems to be either we welcome them in with open arms, or we're Nazis. I do not accept that, and if we'd done something to stem the tide years ago and make it clear we will only take those who arrive through recognised routes, ie the Red Cross or the UN, things might be different. You cannot seriously believe that all these young, fighting age men are fleeing war? Where are all the women and children? I would be less unhappy if these were desperate families, but they're not. I don't see anyone worrying that the French don't put these people up in hotels and give them all sorts of free stuff like we do. It's why they come. We're a soft touch who'll step over our own homeless to be seen to be supporting migrants.

I will stand up for the influences in my own life and believe they at least match those in your own. The concentration camp where my grandmother lost her whole family and almost lost her own life bears little resemblance to the four star, free med and dental with pocket money life the migrants landing here receive. So I find the comments about how Reform are Nazis, insulting, hysterical and short sighted in the extreme.