[arista]

[arista]

[Beso]

Originally Posted by arista

I would be checking out his cousins.

[Crimson Dynamo]

RTE at it again

they are vile


RTÉ News
@rtenews
One of the victims killed in yesterday's attack at a synagogue in Manchester
was shot by police during their attempts to bring the unarmed attacker under
control, officers have said

https://x.com/rtenews/status/1974059019158630659

thankfully they got Community noted

The attacker was not "unarmed", he was armed with a knife and a potentially explosive device.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Abra

Supporting the people of Palestine does not automatically mean you support Hamas.

Palestinian babies do not "hate our guts", but they are still being murdered, including being starved to death by Israel. The red flag is how many people are supportive of a genocide happening before our eyes, but thankfully those numbers are dwindling.

So then citizens in our countries who support Israel's general right to defend themselves don't automatically support genocide then? Because the whole premise of these protests fall flat on their face if we consider the logic of the first statement to be even remotely true.

We don't know what those abroad actually support or don't support, whether it's Israel citizens (Livia has the better idea) or Palestinian citizens. We barely know which way the pendulum swings in our respective countries with its issues and we enjoy some of the widest open access to both free media coverage and opinions coming from both the populace and across the world.

I guess we will see what these peace talks do and if statehood occurs, whether that resolves a problem. I'm skeptical it's going to be that easy and simple to resolve years of open hostility and continued strikes.

[bots]

people don't stop hating each other overnight. Do you think the ukranians would greet russians like long lost friends if a ceasefire were declared tomorrow.

These issues will take generations to fix and in the meantime they will be living next door to each other. ISIS hasn't gone away, Iran hasn't gone away. It's not the end of the conflict, not even close

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bots

people don't stop hating each other overnight. Do you think the ukranians would greet russians like long lost friends if a ceasefire were declared tomorrow.

These issues will take generations to fix and in the meantime they will be living next door to each other. ISIS hasn't gone away, Iran hasn't gone away. It's not the end of the conflict, not even close

British Jews aren't Israeli though. Continuously comparing British Jews to Russians fuels the fire. British Jews did not cross an international border in an act of war.

It would be nice to think hatred of Jews will take a couple if generations to fix.

[arista]

Update

4 are arrested (Home Secretary confirmed)

2 Dead


3 are in the Hospital

[Abra]

Originally Posted by Maru

So then citizens in our countries who support Israel's general right to defend themselves don't automatically support genocide then? Because the whole premise of these protests fall flat on their face if we consider the logic of the first statement to be even remotely true.

We don't know what those abroad actually support or don't support, whether it's Israel citizens (Livia has the better idea) or Palestinian citizens. We barely know which way the pendulum swings in our respective countries with its issues and we enjoy some of the widest open access to both free media coverage and opinions coming from both the populace and across the world.

I guess we will see what these peace talks do and if statehood occurs, whether that resolves a problem. I'm skeptical it's going to be that easy and simple to resolve years of open hostility and continued strikes.

Israel is not "defending itself" though, that excuse doesn't work anymore. Committing a genocide and murdering innocent babies is not defending yourself.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Two days after the Manchester synagogue terror attack, Islamists call for terror
laws to be abolished.

[Livia]

If you have pushed the jihadist lie since Oct 7, spare me crocodile tears today.

Opinion by Jake Wallis Simons

Nobody knows what was going through the mind of the man who slit the throats of two Jews in Manchester today and injured others.

If he were anything like the other terrorists who have wreaked havoc on our streets over the years, however, he likely carried out his crimes in the belief that he was one of the good guys.

From the Spanish Inquisition to the Holocaust, from the pogroms of Eastern Europe to the antisemitic murders and expulsions of the Middle East, the perpetrators are always convinced that they are doing God’s work, either literally or figuratively.

In this grim fact lies a lesson for us all. After two years of the most orchestrated and extensive pro-jihad propaganda operation the world has ever seen, huge numbers of people now see Israel as the bad guys and Hamas as the victims.

Who do I blame? The United Nations. The BBC and other insidious media outlets. The NGOs and international charities. The arts world. The celebrities. The social media bot farms. The universities and schools.

Everywhere, in fact, where the progressive ideology dominates. For decades, these elites have held the levers of power in our culture, cascading their fringe views on the heads of the rest of us.

In my new book, Never Again? How the West Betrayed the Jews and Itself, I describe these people as “centrist fundamentalists”. They are centrists because they view themselves as the grown-ups. And they are fundamentalists because anybody who disagrees with them is silenced with mockery and derision.

These people believe in doing down our patriotism, our history, our flag (though Labour has desperately changed its position on that recently), our traditions and our borders. Their attitude is one of “down with us and up with everyone else”.

The Jews have caught the brunt of this. Partly, it is because the Jews have not forgotten their identity, history, bonds and peoplehood, making them a living rebuke to the centrist fundamentalist. Partly, it is because the Jews are more ourselves than ourselves.

Either way, we have reached a point where our leaders more eagerly embrace those who would like to kill us than the people they are supposed to protect.

From immigration to Israel, the government invariably picks the wrong side. Our culture is committing slow suicide while self-righteously demanding that Israel commit it more quickly.

Well, Israel won’t. And nor will the Jews. But the effect of all this over the two years since October 7 is that the public has become convinced that Israel is a genocidal, apartheid, Nazi state, and Hamas are the courageous “resistance”.

You and I know that the opposite is true. Israel could have destroyed Gaza City with a single bomb, yet it sends its soldiers house-to-house at great risk to themselves. Why? Because it is not genocidal.

Israel could have starved every man, woman and child in Gaza to death within two weeks of October 7. Yet it continues to provide food to the Strip; in the last six weeks, it has provided 40 million meals. Why? Because it does not use famine as a weapon of war.

After the relentless propaganda campaign, however, instigated largely by the United Nations, most people will likely believe the very opposite of the truth. The Manchester killer almost certainly believed that, too.

What we are seeing is nothing less than the successful brainwashing of an entire society to embrace the agenda of the very jihadis who would have the West subverted and everybody who resists dead.

Keir Starmer, David Lammy and their cronies have spent the last two years directing all their condemnation at Israel, the democracy defending itself against jihad, and putting almost no pressure on Hamas, which started this war and would attack us all if it could.

That culminated in the recognition of a Palestinian state, which did not even require the release of the hostages as a condition.

In May, the UN humanitarian chief Tom Fletcher claimed on the BBC that “14,000 babies” would die within “48 hours” in Gaza. This claim was repeated by no fewer than 13 MPs in Parliament. When those babies did not die after all, how many of them apologised? Precious few.

Now these people have the gall to shed crocodile tears about the attack in Manchester today. They have long been part of the problem, making a whole society believe that black is white and the jihadis are the victims. Shame on them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

Stop relying on Hamas and Yahoo for your news.

The synagogue that was attacked was in Britain.. The Jews were British. Do you believe every Muslim in the world is a terrorist? British Jews being attacked in support of Israel and supported by people like you shows how muddled your thinking is.

Can you imagine WW2 covered by the MSM nowadays

It would be filled with images of dead Germans, crying German children.
Reporters bemoaning the fact that many more Germans have been killed - its
not propotionate they cry. Features on the loss of jobs at extermination
camps. The BBC reporting Lord Haw-Haw stats everynight. Kids marching in
the streets end the German Genocide


etc etc

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

Can you imagine WW2 covered by the MSM nowadays

It would be filled with images of dead Germans, crying German children.
Reporters bemoaning the fact that many more Germans have been killed - its
not propotionate they cry. Features on the loss of jobs at extermination
camps. The BBC reporting Lord Haw-Haw stats everynight. Kids marching in
the streets end the German Genocide


etc etc

Thank God that generation of people didn't have the ****ing Internet where every knobhead in the world is given a platform, and what's worse, has a following.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

Thank God that generation of people didn't have the ****ing Internet where every knobhead in the world is given a platform, and what's worse, has a following.

377,000 people follow Elsa

i mean can you just imagine that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

The UN

[Crimson Dynamo]

🚨GARY NEVILLE BLAMES MANCHESTER TERROR ATTACK ON BRITISH PATRIOTS PUTTING UP FLAGS 🇬🇧

"The division that's being created is absolutely disgusting, mainly by angry middle aged white men"

- ADMITS he takes Union Jack flags down on his sites

What the hell is wrong with him?

The disgusting video is here: https://x.com/Basil_TGMD/status/1974794413831508250

[Crimson Dynamo]

J.K. Rowling
@jk_rowling
·
24m
"Pro-Palestinian demonstrators couldn’t give it a rest – not even for 24 hours.
They were chanting all the old slogans and ducking all the hard questions.
‘Globalise the intifada,’ they cried – does that mean killing Jews in Manchester?"
✍️
@NickCohen4



https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...or-what-it-is/

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Abra

Israel Gaza is not "defending itself" though, that excuse doesn't work anymore. Committing a genocide and murdering innocent babies is not defending yourself.

See how easy that was. These aren't actually arguments for or against anything. They are talking points.

Hamas’s Genocidal Intentions Were Never a Secret
https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...nocide/675602/

Released on August 18, 1988, the original covenant spells out clearly Hamas’s genocidal intentions. Accordingly, what happened in Israel on Saturday is completely in keeping with Hamas’s explicit aims and stated objectives. It was, in fact, the inchoate realization of Hamas’s true ambitions.

The most relevant of the document’s 36 articles can be summarized as falling within four main themes:

• The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),
• The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,
• The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and
• The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories.

If Hamas is not the governing body we are dealing with then how are we not able to negotiate around them and appeal to the sensible Palestinians to achieve peace? Unless another solution is fully supported by Palestinians, then they are still at war, however many lives are killed or saved per day.

War does not discriminate between targets. It never has.

We dropped two bombs on Japan causing mass casualty, something many many measures above this and still unthinkable to us today. Yet we don't fret that decision now because it ended a costly war that would've taken many more lives with an enemy whose appetite for conflict was insatiable. Their own people were starving by the very end of it.

You have a very narrow perspective of what happens in war if you are only looking at specific events and body counts. Read about the recovery periods of countries after war has ended and what people have endured, especially people in countries that have lost. Often leadership are treating their own people like dogshit to keep an unsustainable situation going but there's always the propaganda that has to come with that to keep enough support for it.

If a populace is really indoctrinated to think conflict is the be all end all (ie. martydom through faith), historically those have always been the most difficult to resolve through simple politics and negotiations alone.

A book I can recommend as it talks about how Japan reshaped its thinking (as it was forced to). It covers the post-WW2 occupation and is well regarded:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embracing_Defeat

[Maru]

The UN declared for their own political reasons just like any governing body would. Do we really think foreign countries get involved because of the kindness of their hearts? There are clearly strong political reasons we (the US) have historically supported Israel despite the fact they bombed one of our ships, killing crewmembers and both nations covered it up. Would know this because close family member on husband's side died on that ship and it still causes mourning and torments survivors to this day due to lack of answers. There is a memorial within the NSA away from public eye and we didn't get public leaders at the funerals for reasons completely unknown to us.

Knowing that, governments rarely tell the full truth. Do we think Hamas and leadership tell their own people the full truth? Probably not, so why would they offer this to foreigners?

Sadly, the more I think about it it makes sense why they have all now agreed to declare them a state. Perhaps even Trump had similar conversations behind the scenes during the UK visits. After all he didn't seem to mind Ukraine giving up some of their territory. How is it suddenly now we are effectively talking about moving straight to occupying that area. It seems very timely is all. And if Israel really wanted the territory back, declaring them a state wouldn't necessarily change things.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Livia

Thank God that generation of people didn't have the ****ing Internet where every knobhead in the world is given a platform, and what's worse, has a following.

Social media gives us a false sense of objectivity re:moral equivalency when it probably makes us less objective in the longrun if we think we can completely depend on what we see through it. There is a reason political organizations and intelligence agencies spend a lot of resources working it to their advantage.

It doesn't always work out as we have seen... people become emotionally fragile and increasingly rabid when bombarded with so much distressing content... which is what the Left has been learning with the Free Palestine movement. One can't keep feeding people daily doses of cross cultural struggles on steroids and then expect they won't get hung up on one or two of those major narratives and make it very difficult to coalesce within the party.

[Livia]

Great post @Maru, and true, every word.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by arista

Update

4 are arrested (Home Secretary confirmed)

2 Dead


3 are in the Hospital

His cousins ?