[Beso]

Yet there they are, isolating themselves into the LGBTQ group, separated from everyone else, just like every other BB house splits the last few years.

[Jessica.]

Maybe they are grouping themselves by intelligence and not how they identify.

[Vicky.]

I think people naturally gravitate towards others similar to themselves so this isn't really a surprise

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Maybe they are grouping themselves by intelligence and not how they identify.

You need to say which side is which, cause we have someone in a woman's body claiming to be a man in one group. please don't tell me thats the intelligent side.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think people naturally gravitate towards others similar to themselves so this isn't really a surprise

So inclusion isn't all that then


And what do you mean by similar to themselves?


Cause I can't see Sam being up for a kick about with Zelah or nancy

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Maybe they are grouping themselves by intelligence and not how they identify.

Who are you classing as intelligent and otherwise … the groups seem to be a mishmash of intelligence on the face of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Beso

Yet there they are, isolating themselves into the LGBTQ group, separated from everyone else, just like every other BB house splits the last few years.

I noticed that.

Sam seemed to be quite happy that there were a couple excluded from the 2 main groups.

I didn't see much empathy there at all.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I noticed that.

Sam seemed to be quite happy that there were a couple excluded from the 2 main groups.

I didn't see much empathy there at all.

He never mentioned Caroline at all

I think whats happening just imitates what goes on in workplaces all over the country groups gravitate towards each other and you will always have people who float in between

When I worked in a school you had the group who used the staff room....me because I only worked 2 days a week so I wasn't in any of the groups....the English/EU were in another classroom, the Muslims in another, the Sikhs in another and then you had us in the staff room That said if there was birthday or something people went out as a class which had a mix of people and of course the classroom staff were mixed so we did interact just not all of the time

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Maybe they are grouping themselves by intelligence and not how they identify.

[Glenn.]

Funny how when straight people stick together it’s “natural,” but when LGBTQ people do it, it’s “isolation.”

[Beso]

Sam didnt mention feyisola, either.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Funny how when straight people stick together it’s “natural,” but when LGBTQ people do it, it’s “isolation.”

Such a strawman comment.

The point being made here is that the individuals that go on for days and days about inclusion and driving down division are the fastest to form an exclusive in group and are happy, to the point of making light of it, to see lone individuals not included in any group at all.

It's lack of consistency between what they say and how they behave that's being discussed.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Maybe they are grouping themselves by intelligence and not how they identify.

Such nonsense.

Explain Sam being in that group, because he isn't exactly a big brain. Even the others are midwits at best.

This is not a group built around intelligence

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Such a strawman comment.

The point being made here is that the individuals that go on for days and days about inclusion and driving down division are the fastest to form an exclusive in group and are happy, to the point of making light of it, to see lone individuals not included in any group at all.

It's lack of consistency between what they say and how they behave that's being discussed.

Or maybe it’s not hypocrisy at all. When you’re part of a group that’s been mocked or sidelined for years, you tend to gravitate toward people who understand that experience. That’s not exclusion. That’s self-preservation.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Or maybe it’s not hypocrisy at all. When you’re part of a group that’s been mocked or sidelined for years, you tend to gravitate toward people who understand that experience. That’s not exclusion. That’s self-preservation.

oh, get on... You act like it's still the 80s

The double standard is clear, no matter how hard some work to rationalise or make excuses for it.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

oh, get on... You act like it's still the 80s

The double standard is clear, no matter how hard some work to rationalise or make excuses for it.

It’s not about the 80s. It’s about patterns that still exist now. LGBTQ people still deal with bias, subtle or not. Pointing that out isn’t making excuses. It’s just reality that some prefer to ignore.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

It’s not about the 80s. It’s about patterns that still exist now. LGBTQ people still deal with bias, subtle or not. Pointing that out isn’t making excuses. It’s just reality that some prefer to ignore.

Bias is situational and subjective. It exists for everyone in different situations. You only see that which might effect LGBTQ because that's what suits you see.

But, the point here being made is that for a group that preaches inclusion inclusion and empathy it's just a really bad look to see them creating an ingroup and making light of excluding others.

The same way as it was a bad look for Sam to be braying over carol being mocked over her age, while breaking down when someone mocks his affected mannerisms.

There is just zero self awareness or consistency, all they can see is how things impact themselves not others. It's such a narcissistic way to live.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Bias is situational and subjective. It exists for everyone in different situations. You only see that which might effect LGBTQ because that's what suits you see.

But, the point here being made is that for a group that preaches inclusion inclusion and empathy it's just a really bad look to see them creating an ingroup and making light of excluding others.

The same way as it was a bad look for Sam to be braying over carol being mocked over her age, while breaking down when someone mocks his affected mannerisms.

There is just zero self awareness or consistency, all they can see is how things impact themselves not others. It's such a narcissistic way to live.

You’re confusing community with exclusion. There’s a difference between finding safety in shared experience and deliberately shutting others out. LGBTQ people don’t “preach inclusion” because we want everyone to be our friend. We ask for fairness and respect, not forced friendship.

And comparing queer people finding support with Sam mocking someone’s age is a reach. One is solidarity. The other is cruelty. Not the same thing.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

You’re confusing community with exclusion.

No I am not. You just give it different labels depending on who is doing it in order to defend and rationalise it.

Originally Posted by Glenn.

And comparing queer people finding support with Sam mocking someone’s age is a reach. One is solidarity. The other is cruelty. Not the same thing.

Not sure, I find ageism to be every bit as disgusting as, say, homophobia.

The group think of solidarity can be very cruel indeed, as history shows us.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

No I am not. You just give it different labels depending on who is doing it in order to defend and rationalise it.



Not sure, I find ageism to be every bit as disgusting as, say, homophobia.

The group think of solidarity can be very cruel indeed, as history shows us.

Fair point on ageism, it’s wrong too. But intent matters. Mocking someone for who they are isn’t the same as finding comfort with people who share your experiences. One comes from hate, the other from protection. Calling that groupthink ignores why those groups form in the first place.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Fair point on ageism, it’s wrong too. But intent matters. Mocking someone for who they are isn’t the same as finding comfort with people who share your experiences. One comes from hate, the other from protection. Calling that groupthink ignores why those groups form in the first place.

Exclusion over the last 20 years has actively been classed as a form of hate... Now that the LGBT community have power, it suddenly switches to 'self protection and comfort'.

But, look... If a Christian community, for example, banned trans people from a space on the grounds of self protection and comfort they would be attacked as bigots.

The mocking of Carol based on her age was a separate example of the double standards and hypocrisy of that group. I didn't mean to imply it was the same thing as the happy exclusion of others from their ingroup.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Exclusion over the last 20 years has actively been classed as a form of hate... Now that the LGBT community have power, it suddenly switches to 'self protection and comfort'.

But, look... If a Christian community, for example, banned trans people from a space on the grounds of self protection and comfort they would be attacked as bigots.

The mocking of Carol based on her age was a separate example of the double standards and hypocrisy of that group. I didn't mean to imply it was the same thing as the happy exclusion of others from their ingroup.

You’re comparing things that aren’t equal. A Christian group banning trans people is exclusion based on identity. LGBTQ people forming a bond in a shared space is inclusion within a marginalised identity. One restricts access, the other builds safety.

As for Carol, mocking age is wrong. But calling an oppressed group hypocritical for finding comfort together misses the bigger picture. Power isn’t equal here, no matter how much you want to pretend it is.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

You’re comparing things that aren’t equal. A Christian group banning trans people is exclusion based on identity. LGBTQ people forming a bond in a shared space is inclusion within a marginalised identity. One restricts access, the other builds safety.

Every group claims that they are excluding others in the name of safety. The comparison is 100% equal, it's just may not be comfortable with that being point out.

Originally Posted by Glenn.

As for Carol, mocking age is wrong. Power isn’t equal here, no matter how much you want to pretend it is.

Power is situational. In that time when Carol was being mocked for her age, Sam was in the power group.

Power is never a static value. It is always situational.

Right now the LGBT group is in a powerful place in the house, so they exclude and mock freely.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Every group claims that they are excluding others in the name of safety. The comparison is 100% equal, it's just may not be comfortable with that being point out.



Power is situational. In that time when Carol was being mocked for her age, Sam was in the power group.

Power is never a static value. It is always situational.

Right now the LGBT group is in a powerful place in the house, so they exclude and mock freely.

Power isn’t just who’s loudest in a house share. It’s about who faces that bias in real life, outside the walls too. LGBTQ people might look confident or united in there, but that doesn’t erase the years of being the punchline or outsider.

Carol was mocked, yes, and that’s ugly. But that doesn’t mean the dynamics are equal. A few days of house dominance doesn’t undo decades of prejudice.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Power isn’t just who’s loudest in a house share. It’s about who faces that bias in real life, outside the walls too. LGBTQ people might look confident or united in there, but that doesn’t erase the years of being the punchline or outsider.

Carol was mocked, yes, and that’s ugly. But that doesn’t mean the dynamics are equal. A few days of house dominance doesn’t undo decades of prejudice.

As I said, in real life power is situational. It is not a constant value.

I know that this isn't the received wisdom in the LGBT community because, well, it's benefits them to not understand or acknowledge it, but it's true.

The dynamic def was not equal, I agree. Sam was in a power position and he abused it. He could have stayed true and consistent to his professed values and extended empathy to Carol, but instead he brayed like a donkey.