[Kate!]

Originally Posted by Good King Glennceslas

The way I’m cringing at you right now though

OH WILL YOU SHUT UP. All you do on here is take the piss and accuse everyone of being racist, sexist, homophobic or all of them. If you really hate us all so much just do one.

[Parmy]

One must love oneself before they can love others.

[Glenn.]

Maybe a mod can just ban the people that refuse to add anything to the thread

[bots]

who cares if some guy doesn't like the Rule Britannia? This is just another attempt to create division

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

So will he give back his MBE? Or does having that not offend him as much as the old song? Yes, he's a good musician but this reeks of double standards.

No, he views that as a good award

[arista]

Originally Posted by bots

who cares if some guy doesn't like the Rule Britannia? This is just another attempt to create division

Sure

He is a top musician


I would pay to watch him in a concert

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by bots

who cares if some guy doesn't like the Rule Britannia? This is just another attempt to create division

No one really cares. Like I said earlier in the thread. Rule Britannia- foreign name- triggered

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

No, he views that as a good award

But it has British Empire right there in the title. "Member of the Order of the British Empire". How come Rule Britannia smacks of colonialism and slavery but being an Member of the Order of the British Empire doesn't? It makes no sense at all.

[Glenn.]

It actually makes perfect sense.

An MBE is an honour given today for individual achievement. It does not celebrate slavery or empire. It recognises work done now.

Rule Britannia is an 18th century song written to glorify imperial power. Its meaning has not changed. Context matters.

One is a modern award. One is historical propaganda. Pretending they are the same thing is the real confusion

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

But it has British Empire right there in the title. "Member of the Order of the British Empire". How come Rule Britannia smacks of colonialism and slavery but being an Member of the Order of the British Empire doesn't? It makes no sense at all.

He is only 26 years old


He is a Top Professional Musician
and did not like that song


Thats fine

[Ray.]

Tbh though, this is the kind of counterproductive self 'othering' that is making the likes of Steve Laws less fringe as time goes on.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Good King Glennceslas

It actually makes perfect sense.

An MBE is an honour given today for individual achievement. It does not celebrate slavery or empire. It recognises work done now.

Rule Britannia is an 18th century song written to glorify imperial power. Its meaning has not changed. Context matters.

One is a modern award. One is historical propaganda. Pretending they are the same thing is the real confusion

The song has nothing to do with slavery or colonialization. It was a maritime ditty the sailors sang on their way to defeat tyranny.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Parmy

The song has nothing to do with slavery or colonialization. It was a maritime ditty the sailors sang on their way to defeat tyranny.

That is a neat fairy tale.

Rule Britannia was about naval power and empire. That is the point of the song. It is not hidden.

The navy existed to protect trade, colonies, and imperial control. Slavery sat right in the middle of that system.

You can like the tune. Just stop pretending the history magically disappears because it suits you.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Good King Glennceslas

That is a neat fairy tale.

Rule Britannia was about naval power and empire. That is the point of the song. It is not hidden.

The navy existed to protect trade, colonies, and imperial control. Slavery sat right in the middle of that system.

You can like the tune. Just stop pretending the history magically disappears because it suits you.

You don't know much...

It was written in opposition to king George the 2nd.


The line, Britons never never never shall be slaves was a direct message to him about how he ruled the country.

[Parmy]

"Rule, Britannia!" was written in 1740 as the finale for the masque Alfred, celebrating Britain's emerging naval power and independence from foreign tyrants, but it also served as a subtle political rallying cry for opposition to King George II, expressing desires for freedom and a stronger national identity, though its imperialistic connotations grew later as the British Empire expanded.

[Glenn.]

You are halfway there and still missing the point.

Yes, it mocked George II. That does not cancel what it celebrated. Naval dominance. Power. Britain ruling the seas.

And here is the bit you keep skipping. That naval power later became the backbone of empire. Trade. Colonies. Slavery. That is not opinion. That is history.

Saying the imperial meaning grew later does not erase it now. Symbols evolve. That is literally why this conversation exists.

You can keep the fun origin story. It does not freeze the song in 1740 forever.

[Barry.]

I actually never thought of the song at all. I only hear it on Rupaul Drag Race as they are giving the badge for the win . I don’t even know the full lyrics to the song, I always thought they said god save the queen/king at the mbe give outs

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Good King Glennceslas

You are halfway there and still missing the point.

Yes, it mocked George II. That does not cancel what it celebrated. Naval dominance. Power. Britain ruling the seas.

And here is the bit you keep skipping. That naval power later became the backbone of empire. Trade. Colonies. Slavery. That is not opinion. That is history.

Saying the imperial meaning grew later does not erase it now. Symbols evolve. That is literally why this conversation exists.

You can keep the fun origin story. It does not freeze the song in 1740 forever.

But that's the song...the song is the exact words from the 1740 poem. It's him that's changed the meaning of the words. The songs still the same song.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Good King Glennceslas

You are halfway there and still missing the point.

Yes, it mocked George II. That does not cancel what it celebrated. Naval dominance. Power. Britain ruling the seas.

And here is the bit you keep skipping. That naval power later became the backbone of empire. Trade. Colonies. Slavery. That is not opinion. That is history.

Saying the imperial meaning grew later does not erase it now. Symbols evolve. That is literally why this conversation exists.

You can keep the fun origin story. It does not freeze the song in 1740 forever.

Ruling the seas from foreign tyranny. To protect our trade routes. Nothing to do with slavery.

[Parmy]

As a member of the arts world, you would think he would be respecting the originality of the song and not bowing down to what it's supposedly turned into.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Parmy

But that's the song...the song is the exact words from the 1740 poem. It's him that's changed the meaning of the words. The songs still the same song.

Originally Posted by Parmy

Ruling the seas from foreign tyranny. To protect our trade routes. Nothing to do with slavery.

No. Meanings do not stay frozen in time.

The words stayed the same. Britain did not.

Protecting trade routes in the 18th century meant protecting empire. Empire meant colonies. Colonies meant slavery. That is the system. You cannot surgically remove the bit you like.

Symbols pick up history as they go. That is how culture works. Otherwise nothing would ever change and context would be pointless.

You can insist the song is innocent. Others are allowed to hear the weight it carries now. That is not him changing it. That is history doing its job.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Parmy

As a member of the arts world, you would think he would be respecting the originality of the song and not bowing down to what it's supposedly turned into.

That makes no sense.

Artists understand context better than anyone. Art does not live in a vacuum. It carries what happens around it.

Respecting originality does not mean pretending the last 300 years did not happen.

Ironically, expecting him to ignore how the song is received today is the least artistic take possible.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

But it has British Empire right there in the title. "Member of the Order of the British Empire". How come Rule Britannia smacks of colonialism and slavery but being an Member of the Order of the British Empire doesn't? It makes no sense at all.

Nope, especially with the words British Empire foremost, I guess its easy to pick and choose what you are going to get hissy about

[Parmy]

Ironically, expecting him to ignore how the song is received today is the least artistic take possible





How is it received today?

It seems popular at the royal Albert hall. The BBC also airs it often.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by The Grinch

I actually never thought of the song at all. I only hear it on Rupaul Drag Race as they are giving the badge for the win . I don’t even know the full lyrics to the song, I always thought they said god save the queen/king at the mbe give outs

I assume he was hiding behind a curtain if they did when he got his