[Captain.Remy]

Message original : arista

Who is a Moron?

It seems to be you. I mean, according to Hugo lol.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Lauren

The picture is shocking, but only because it's developed physically close to being a baby. But mentally it's nothing. I know that sounds harsh, but it literally has no awareness, feelings, understanding, autonoetic awareness, hearing... nothing. It's for this reason I think the rights of the mother should come first. (But this is also the reason why I believe the limit should stay strictly at 24 weeks, no later).

Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo
Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

If life began at the conception, our birthday dates will be different, like people from Mongolia do. They count the 9 months of pregnancy which we don't. Juridically, life begins when the baby starts breathing. Never before. So your statement is wrong.

[John.]

IMO IMO IMO.

it's a personal thing... it should stay personal...

no one has the right to question what someone else wants to do!



it's up to the 'parents'. but i do think the father should have a say...

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Hugo

Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

But this is why I am pro-choice, rather than pro-abortion. I don't take abortion lightly, but in some cases it's a case of 'the rights of the woman vs. the rights of a foetus'. I honestly believe in this impossible decision, there is only one outcome, and that should be up to the woman.

Originally posted by JD.

it's up to the 'parents'. but i do think the father should have a say...

Now this is an interesting point. I remember I once said this to someone, and they questioned me further.

What happens if the father is adamant he wants the mother to have an abortion, but she wants the baby to be born?

Or what if the father wants the mother to carry on with the pregnancy, but she wants an abortion (perhaps if the pregnancy were to cause physical damage etc.)?

It should be a mutual decision, but ultimately the woman should have the choice.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy

If life began at the conception, our birthday dates will be different, like people from Mongolia do. They count the 9 months of pregnancy which we don't. Juridically, life begins when the baby starts breathing. Never before. So your statement is wrong.

No it isn't, it's a scientific fact, not an opinion. Also they are called birthdays because they are when we are born, when we take our first independent breaths ect. Birth is different from life beginning.

[Twilight]

Originally posted by Lauren

But this is why I am pro-choice, rather than pro-abortion. I don't take abortion lightly, but in some cases it's a case of 'the rights of the woman vs. the rights of a foetus'. I honestly believe in this impossible decision, there is only one outcome, and that should be up to the woman.

This

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

No it isn't, it's a scientific fact, not an opinion. Also they are called birthdays because they are when we are born, when we take our first independent breaths ect. Birth is different from life beginning.

I never said it was an opinion. I've made my argument about a fact from Law. Nothing more complicated. A baby isn't alive until their first breath.

[MrGaryy]

Originally posted by Twilight

This

Wow Twilight, you're such an asset to the forum, always contributing informative and interesting posts.

[Twilight]

Originally posted by MrGaryy

Wow Twilight, you're such an asset to the forum, always contributing informative and interesting posts.

Lol

[Hugo]

Originally posted by MrGaryy

Wow Twilight, you're such an asset to the forum, always contributing informative and interesting posts.

LMAO

[Fom]

I was and slightly still am Pro-life, but after my best friend had a pregnancy scare... my whole opinion changed, it suddenly came acceptable as she is a young person with a bright future. If it was my mistake I personally would have it as I feel its my responsibility. But I understand why people are Pro- Choice now. And thats coming from someone who is mostly Pro Life

[arista]

Having a Abortion
is 100% Legal in the UK.
That is a Fact.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by arista
Having a Abortion
is 100% Legal in the UK.
That is a Fact.

Well done. Next week we'll do colours.

[John.]

IMO.

i do think, that now many people see abortion as a form of contraception when it isn't...

men should use condoms and
woman should be on the pill, etc. etc.

it not just the man's responsibility to carry condoms either. if a woman wants to have sex then she has to make sure that she has condoms aswell...

[arista]

Also a Un Born Baby has No Rights.

[Indierock&roll]

i think its your choice .. its your baby if you dont want it and wouldnt be able to cope with it then i say go ahead
id without a doubt get an abortion if i got pregnant at my age now..
probably even if i was still about 21 .. wouldnt want a baby till about 30

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

Well done. Next week we'll do colours.

ROFLMAO

[Fom]

Originally posted by arista
Also a Un Born Baby has No Rights.

Who said that? Who made that into a law?
I think you are making that up really, as far as I know every living thing has rights, the un born baby has a heartbeat and brain activity, therefore its a living thing... surely?

[arista]

Originally posted by Fom

Who said that? Who made that into a law?
I think you are making that up really, as far as I know every living thing has rights, the un born baby has a heartbeat and brain activity, therefore its a living thing... surely?

No the Parents have full Rights to Terminate it.


"In the UK, abortion is only legal if performed under the strict criteria and guidelines of the Abortion Act, laid down to protect the welfare of the mother and the unborn child."

"Abortion is a relatively safe procedure when done by trained professionals. It can be done in several ways, using drug and/or surgical treatments. The following is based on timings as recommended by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists."

[arista]

Surgical treatments:

* From five to 15 weeks - the pregnancy can be removed by placing a tube through the vagina and into the cervix. This is known as suction termination. It's often carried out under local anaesthetic, but you may be offered sedation or a general anaesthetic. It can also be done as a day case, avoiding a hospital stay.
* From 15 to 19 weeks - a surgical dilatation and evacuation (known as D&E) may be necessary to empty the womb. This is usually done under a light general anaesthetic.
* Up to 24 weeks- more advanced pregnancies are rarely terminated but when they are, more complicated surgery is required.






You can be against this Legal Right to Abort
but it will Never stop it.
Fact.

[letmein]

Originally posted by Hugo

life starts at conception.

That's an opinion, not a fact.

[letmein]

Originally posted by Fom

Who said that? Who made that into a law?
I think you are making that up really, as far as I know every living thing has rights, the un born baby has a heartbeat and brain activity, therefore its a living thing... surely?

No, it doesn't. Someone needs to learn basic biology.

[Sunny_01]

We have had this debate many times and it is always interesting to see the different views and thoughts everyone has around this very sensitive issue. I am and will remain pro-choice! I believe we all have the right to choose what we do or do not do with our bodies and that includes having the right to choose to end a pregnancy that is unwanted.

I have had time to look at a lot of information and think hard about timescales etc and do believe it is right to reduce the limit of weeks to 20 weeks unless there are health reasons etc.. but that doesnt mean I would take any womans rights away from her.

I do think it is also very sensitive when you consider the potential father in this issue, I hate the thought that anyone doesnt get a choice BUT as they are not making a decision that affects their body I think the final say should be down to the woman. That in no way means I dont feel for the men involved or wish there was more that could be done to include their wishes, its just the way it is sadly.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

Surgical treatments:

* From five to 15 weeks - the pregnancy can be removed by placing a tube through the vagina and into the cervix. This is known as suction termination. It's often carried out under local anaesthetic, but you may be offered sedation or a general anaesthetic. It can also be done as a day case, avoiding a hospital stay.
* From 15 to 19 weeks - a surgical dilatation and evacuation (known as D&E) may be necessary to empty the womb. This is usually done under a light general anaesthetic.
* Up to 24 weeks- more advanced pregnancies are rarely terminated but when they are, more complicated surgery is required.

Hmm. When I was 15, I was on holiday and was spiked. I ended up having unprotected sex. And, just my luck, I got pregnant. I thought I couldnt cope with a baby at that age, so i went to my doctor who arranged for me to have an abortion. I didnt even have to tell my parents, but I did, as we are very close and can talk about almost anything. I took my friend with me to the clinic as my dad was quite upset at the idea of the whole thing happening, as initially he was over the moon at the prospect of being a grandad, though he was supportive, I know he didnt me to do what I did.

I had to go there the day beforehand, to take a tablet. To this day im not 100% sure what that tablet was for. But I had been told beforehand, by my doctor that I would see a psyciatrist first to be sure this was what I really wanted, and to explain exactly what would happen etc. From the little bit of information I was given I think I remember being told the tablet cut off the foetus' bloody supply or something, virtually killing it. The day i went, for whatever reason I did not have the option to see a psyciatrist. They did a scan on me, which I refused to look at, given what I was planning on doing. They gave me a little tablet, told me to take it and come back either the next day or a few days later (my memory is quite hazy...I think to be honest I have blocked it out)

When I went back, they gave me another tablet, which (again) I think was to start off labour (or as it would be, a miscarriage). Im sorry, I dont remember all the details. All I remember is the next few hours were so painful. I was at the loo every few minutes, every time I went I had to do it in one of those little cardboard things they give you in the hospital if your going to throw up. Eventually, blood clots and jelly like stuff was coming out everytime I went. Apparently the reason you have to do this is so that the nurses can check when the foetus is totally gone or something. About an hour later, I went to the loo again, and loads of the horrible stuff came away. The nurses checked it, gave me a blood test and that and sent me home. So I assume, that the jelly/blood, was my 'baby'.

So there are other methods aswell as the ones you listed.

To this day I still have nightmares about it, and wish that there HAD been some form of psychiatrist available that day. As I think I may have changed my mind, given the correct help. I was young and stubborn, and thinking about having fun, above all else. Very selfish decision on my part, Il admit. Although, if I had gone ahead with the pregnancy, I may well have wrecked my life...maybe not, who knows. I just think, looking back, that my reasons for doing it were totally superficial, and wish someone had tried to talk me out of it.

Its not something to be taken lightly at all. Its always there, in the back of your mind, moreso with me as my partner has 3 young kids, and my child would have been a year older than his oldest...



Anyway, Im rambling here now. But as for the orginal question, pro-choice. As long as the correct help is available.