[Stu]

Originally Posted by setanta

Ah come on Stu, you're stealing off them like I do on occassion. There's no degrees of right or wrong in a situation like this or excuses to be made when we're basically shop lifting their tunes.

Of course there is. Due to the availability of free music online, thousands of artists have discovered fan bases salivating for fresh material. On the other hand, record sales are down. There are both good and bad sides to everything. Much like the late King Of Pop, it's neither black nor white.

Is it okay to 'steal' from certain artists more than others? Absolutely. Without question.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Stu

Of course there is. Due to the availability of free music online, thousands of artists have discovered fan bases salivating for fresh material. On the other hand, record sales are down. There are both good and bad sides to everything. Much like the late King Of Pop, it's neither black nor white.

Is it okay to 'steal' from certain artists more than others? Absolutely. Without question.

But stealing is stealing really; I don't think there's degrees involved with it.

Yes, it's nice to see new music out there on the internet but for every new discovery people make, do you think they'll go out and buy their cd or attend their gigs? I'm not so sure.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by setanta

But stealing is stealing really; I don't think there's degrees involved with it.

If you want to think stealing all the cash and jewelery from a pensioner living alone and stealing a rock from Richard Branson's prized chest of rocks is the same thing, without degrees, because of some bollocks pseudo moral 'stealing is stealing' mentality then sure, shoot for the stars.

Originally Posted by setanta

Yes, it's nice to see new music out there on the internet but for every new discovery people make, do you think they'll go out and buy their cd or attend their gigs? I'm not so sure.

I am. Record sales may be down, but live gig attendances went through the roof this decade. That's a fact.

For every negative of illegal downloading there is a lot of positives. When record prices are nosediving in years to come, be sure to send us hooligans a letter of thanks!

File sharing is driving a knife right through the corporate underbelly of the music industry. Fucking celebrate.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Stu

If you want to think stealing all the cash and jewelery from a pensioner living alone and stealing a rock from Richard Branson's prized chest of rocks is the same thing, without degrees, because of some bollocks pseudo moral 'stealing is stealing' mentality then sure, shoot for the stars.


I am. Record sales may be down, but live gig attendances went through the roof this decade. That's a fact.

For every negative of illegal downloading there is a lot of positives. When record prices are nosediving in years to come, be sure to send us hooligans a letter of thanks!

The live gigs are by and large for the bands that people like Branson and the like produce and yes, stealing is stealing. I find it highly unlikely that people who download relatively unknown bands for free will suddenly have a mad desire to find an original copy and buy it or travel over to Finland or Russia or wherever to see them perform live. And the stealing is stealing is in reference to your assertions involving the music business, not with regard to all forms of stealing.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by setanta

I find it highly unlikely that people who download relatively unknown bands for free will suddenly have a mad desire to find an original copy and buy it or travel over to Finland or Russia or wherever to see them perform live.

I find it highly unlikely that the situation is always as exaggerated as you portray it to be.

Also, they would have more of a chance of been seen live than if the person never downloaded the music in the first place. Music should be the number one priority for any real artist. I for one would be delighted if thousands more got to hear my music through illegal download for free.

Plus your ignoring the fact, again, that the channels many of these bands have been found through in the first place have been ... you guessed it ... the INTERNET!

And it's not all small artists. There is so much of this you are ignoring. In their conceptual stages Lilly Allen, Arcade Fire, The Arctic Monkey's and more have all started out as viral internet phenomena.

Originally Posted by setanta

And the stealing is stealing is in reference to your assertions involving the music business, not with regard to all forms of stealing.

So stealing actually isn't stealing? Or is it stealing within the music business is all the same? Either way, it's a riddiculous theory your putting forward. Just substitute Richard Branson for Britney Spears and Pensioner for Rubak Schtanziey - Russia's finest folktronica quartet.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Stu

I find it highly unlikely that the situation is always as exaggerated as you portray it to be.

Also, they would have more of a chance of been seen live than if the person never downloaded the music in the first place. Music should be the number one priority for any real artist. I for one would be delighted if thousands more got to hear my music through illegal download for free.

Plus your ignoring the fact, again, that the channels many of these bands have been found through in the first place have been ... you guessed it ... the INTERNET!

And it's not all small artists. There is so much of this you are ignoring. In there conceptual stages Lilly Allen, Arcade Fire, The Arctic Monkey's and more have all started out as viral internet phenomena.


So stealing actually isn't stealing? Or is it stealing within the music business is all the same? Either way, it's a riddiculous theory your putting forward. Just substitute Richard Branson for Britney Spears and Pensioner for Rubak Schtanziey - Russia's finest folktronica quartet.

No no, you've stated that it's ok to steal off some bands and not off others but I don't believe people are guided by such principles when they download off the internet. And they're not principles in the first place really because, as I said before I don't believe that many go out and buy an original copy after downloading a pirated one. People don't work that way in life, as we've already seen from some of the comments posted on this thread.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by setanta

No no, you've stated that it's ok to steal off some bands and not off others but I don't believe people are guided by such principles when they download off the internet. And they're not principles in the first place really because, as I said before I don't believe that many go out and buy an original copy after downloading a pirated one. People don't work that way in life, as we've already seen from some of the comments posted on this thread.

Yes, I do believe it is okay to 'steal' from some artists and not others. That's my personal opinion. Well, actually, it's more a fact, but at the risk of sounding pretentious, god forbid, I will leave it in the opinion basket.

'Stealing' an album from an artist who is overpaid and who is underworked, studio wise, and 'stealing' an album from a band struggling to make ends meet who put effort into creating genuinely interesting, unique soundscapes are two very, very different things.

I don't really see where you are coming from, to be honest. Your just running off on tangents instead of confronting the arguments I have posted. I don't see why you are using TiBB of all places as the template for gauging what illegal downloaders do. Your argument has no real statistical merit and merely boils down to ''well I reckon most people download artists and never buy them''.

Your probably right, the majority probably don't buy all of what they 'steal', but people are different. They, like this issue, can't be generalised into such daft concepts as 'good' and 'evil'.

Again, I show you the upsides of this 'crime' : Increasing live ticket sales, exposure for new bands, new channels of media for pre existing bands, slashing long overpriced record sales, wider consumer choice, easier access to otherwise rare and experimental material, a greater shift to independent labels where artists have both more of a say and more of the profits, a return to genuinely trying to create records the public will want to buy because it's not the same old shit, a D.I.Y approach to being able to create and share - bedroom production - the very thing that kick started both Punk and the 90's dance explosion.

I could go on...