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WOMBAI · 30-12-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

I don't buy that one bit. Intelligence is not directly linked to age. Life is more complex than that. Some people stay in front of the telly collecting welfare cheques for all eternity, some don't absorb knowledge, some do but never capatalise on it, some people just seem to get thicker as they go along, some people start out fine and become born again at the age of 42.

You can't just say older instantly = wiser.

Taking your logic a 42 year old will always be smarter and in a better position to make judgements than a 22 year old.

I never said it was! I'm not talking about intelligence - that is genetically determined. I am talking about knowledge - and a lot of that comes over time - as I said before - life experience!

Stu · 30-12-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I never said it was! I'm not talking about intelligence - that is genetically determined. I am talking about knowledge - and a lot of that comes over time - as I said before - life experience!

Fair enough, mixing up of terms, but I still don't think what you are saying is strictly true. A lot of teens read books. A lot of adults remain thick. Look at the baby P case. I just don't think it's fair to assume the older someone is the wiser.

Cliches aint' always true. Just most of the time

.

InOne · 30-12-2009, 12:21 PM

Well if he was truly in a manic phase, you can become delusional, hallucinate and really not know what was going on. Bipolar isn't always about being manic and depressed. If he was in that state at the time then he didn't deserve to die for it. The family even flew to China to try convince them of his mental illness. UK should have done more really. But it's China, which is a brutal country anyway. If I was in a manic phase and that happened to me i'd hope my country would have done more to prevent my death. I know how it feels and you really have no control. So it's not about 'Do the crime do the time' when mental illness comes into it.

WOMBAI · 30-12-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InOne

Well if he was truly in a manic phase, you can become delusional, hallucinate and really not know what was going on. Bipolar isn't always about being manic and depressed. If he was in that state at the time then he didn't deserve to die for it. The family even flew to China to try convince them of his mental illness. UK should have done more really. But it's China, which is a brutal country anyway. If I was in a manic phase and that happened to me i'd hope my country would have done more to prevent my death. I know how it feels and you really have no control. So it's not about 'Do the crime do the time' when mental illness comes into it.

Fair enough if he did suffer from the illness. Have the family produced any evidence of that do you know? All seems a bit convenient when considering that they also claim that the drugs were planted on him. If one defence fails - got the safety net of the other.

lily. · 30-12-2009, 12:24 PM

If his illness was likely to cause him to break the law, then why visit a country like China where everyone knows his illness won't be accepted as a defence?

InOne · 30-12-2009, 12:26 PM

Cos sometimes you are in control sometimes you're not. You can be ok for years and then suddenly break down

lily. · 30-12-2009, 12:30 PM

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic, and I agree that his illness is a valid defence, but I just always feel the same about the laws of other lands. I'm the first one to harp on about people respecting the laws/cultures of the UK, and I believe that applies to everyone all across the world.

For example, I wouldn't visit some of the strict muslim countries where I would be punished for wearing shorts..

I assume he was thinking clearly when he chose to visit China. Why then, did he not realise the danger he could theoretically put himself in, had a manic episode occurred during his visit?

InOne · 30-12-2009, 12:32 PM

He went there to start a music career, me also made very odd music videos, and he was sending erratic letters to the British embassy in Poland. A doc also comfirmed he suffered from a delusional form of Bipolar. A British doc was denied access to see him in China.

lily. · 30-12-2009, 12:36 PM

According to sky news WOMBAI: Mr Shaikh's family and supporters say he was seriously mentally ill and was duped into carrying the drugs unknowingly by a gang.

I'm not always quick to believe people were "duped" into carrying drugs. I can't help thinking they would be offered a substantial financial sum for doing so, and that's why they carried them.

SKY NEWS ARTICLE HERE

lily. · 30-12-2009, 12:41 PM

There appears to be no previous record of his 'mental illness'.

Doesn't anyone find that odd?

WOMBAI · 30-12-2009, 12:46 PM

It seems from reading that, that there may have been some sort of evidence of his condition. Don't think the government would have been taking such a stance if they were not aware of it. It is a difficult judgement to make without knowing all the facts.

lily. · 30-12-2009, 12:47 PM

The problem is, we'll get two distorted versions of 'the facts'. One from the corrupt Chinese government and one from an outraged grieving family.

Sticks · 30-12-2009, 01:40 PM

He's dead
It's over
Move on and stop bad mouthing one of our principal trading partners

Do you not care about British jobs in the middle of the deepest recession?

Stu · 30-12-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

He's dead
It's over
Move on and stop bad mouthing one of our principal trading partners

Do you not care about British jobs in the middle of the deepest recession?

Alright then. Don't bring up Jesus to me.

Sticks · 30-12-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

Alright then. Don't bring up Jesus to me.

Would you care for Romans 13:1-7, a section some people forget.

Quote:

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgement on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honour, then honour.

This case was handled in accordance with their laws, which as a sovereign state they are entitled to do, without interference from outsiders.

lily. · 30-12-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

This case was handled in accordance with their laws, which as a sovereign state they are entitled to do, without interference from outsiders.

Graeme, I already said something similar. It's their country, their laws, and their decision ultimately.

But I take issue with you insisting we should not discuss this. This is a discussion forum. We don't live in China. We live in the UK. We are entitled to discuss this.

andyman · 30-12-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

He's dead
It's over
Move on and stop bad mouthing one of our principal trading partners

Do you not care about British jobs in the middle of the deepest recession?

I understand what you say with the bigger picture, we must suck on the teet of the Red Beast and brush humanity under the carpet..

lily. · 30-12-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks

He's dead
It's over
Move on and stop bad mouthing one of our principal trading partners

Do you not care about British jobs in the middle of the deepest recession?

How dare you tell people what to discuss? Our forefathers fought for our freedom and our rights. We live in a free country. We have freedom of speech, and if we wish to discuss this or anything else, then we shall.