[Zippy]

I don't believe a word Stephen says about anything, frankly. He has a whiff of hypocrisy and insincerity about him.

And the way he kept trying to read Godly meaning into the slightest thing was just hilarious.

Go preach to someone who gives a damn.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ghosty, please stop being anal with the rules and try to actually argue the points instead of dodging them.

Ask Gavin for a prayer meeting to check on forum rules - oops, can't just rely on Ghost with some adjudication by President

[CaudleHalbard]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I don't believe a word Stephen says about anything, frankly. He has a whiff of hypocrisy and insincerity about him.

And the way he kept trying to read Godly meaning into the slightest thing was just hilarious.

I think this is part of the problem. He is just so unconvincing.

[Ghostinthehouse]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

All that matters to me is my own mind and resolve why should it matter if people respect that or not?

Because you live in the world.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Ghostinthehouse

Why do you find it so hard to simply accept that there are many, many people in the world that do not have the same ideas or beliefs as you? And that if you wish to live in the world,(you're 19 years old you said didn't you?) as you get older you have to learn to respect others and their beliefs.

For example, when you have a family and children, you will have to accept, and respect ,their right to have a belief in Christianity if they want. Or would you disown them? Surely not? Don't you already have family members who have differing beliefs? Including in politics - which you mentioned in your post.

You also mention you come from Ireland? Surely then you understand how a lack of respect for religious beliefs and a lack of tolerance is a terrible thing?

I do not find it hard to believe many people exist in the world with different beliefs other than my own. It still does not mean I have to respect them. If religious beliefs do not respect my beliefs, why should I respect them? And WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING THIS POINT?

Again, I believe in Santa Claus and Stalin believed in the purges. Respect us. Respect us. Respect us.

[Girlinstatic]

Originally Posted by Ghostinthehouse

Which is a good example of why everyone has to be respectful of others, as we all share the same world.

More respect would mean less war, death and suffering.

Yes exactly. I am really tired of how many bigots there are floating about, the world would be a much nicer place if people in general were a tad more open-minded about things.

Judas Iscariot, what is your definition of respect, then? I get where you are coming from because I am gay myself, and hold lots of beliefs that Christians and other religions would disagree with also, but I wouldn't be judgemental to someone who choses to believe in the bible, and I would hope that other people wouldn't judge me for the way I live my life or what I believe in also. Respecting something doesn't take anything away from your own personal beliefs, so it astounds me that you begrudge it for others to be honest. I see no rational reason why! I mean, I assume you would like people to respect that you have different beliefs too right!?

Claymores - I agree Stephen was a tad pushy at times, but I didn't get the impression that anyone was particularly bothered by it, even Steph says she'll miss the bible being out. Maybe Alex learnt a few things, who knows!

[Ghostinthehouse]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ghosty, please stop being anal with the rules and try to actually argue the points instead of dodging them.

Why do you feel the need to be offensive towards someone just because you don't agree with them?

You should look within yourself and ask why you do that a lot.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by Ghostinthehouse

Why do you feel the need to be offensive towards someone just because you don't agree with them?

You should look within yourself and ask why you do that a lot.

Don't take Gavin's bait Dezzy

[CaudleHalbard]

So, Ghostinthehouse, Girlinstatic etc, would you be perfectly happy if a Muslim HM insisted on:

(a) Reading lengthy bits of the Koran, on a daily basis, to fellow HMs.

(b) Ascribing everything to the will of Allah.

(c) Trying to make Alex into a Muslim.

[Ghostinthehouse]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Imagine if a Muslim HM (and there have been such) made fellow HMs sit around and, on a daily basis, listen to readings from the Koran... and had also taken an HM (preferably one with limited intellect!) into the snug for some personal Islamic instruction.

Ch4's switchboard would be glowing red-hot with complaints! There would be calls for the Muslim HM to be ejected.

No one had a problem with Jermaine Jackson and his discussion on the Koran and he is a muslim. And Jermaine was VERY popular in and out of the house!!!!! So you're argument falls apart there doesnt it. LOL. Jermaine even had his prayer mat and prayed to Allah, and he DID preach to the HMs.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Girlinstatic

Yes exactly. I am really tired of how many bigots there are floating about, the world would be a much nicer place if people in general were a tad more open-minded about things.

Judas Iscariot, what is your definition of respect, then? I get where you are coming from because I am gay myself, and hold lots of beliefs that Christians and other religions would disagree with also, but I wouldn't be judgemental to someone who choses to believe in the bible, and I would hope that other people wouldn't judge me for the way I live my life or what I believe in also. Respecting something doesn't take anything away from your own personal beliefs, so it astounds me that you begrudge it for others to be honest. I see no rational reason why! I mean, I assume you would like people to respect that you have different beliefs too right!?

Claymores - I agree Stephen was a tad pushy at times, but I didn't get the impression that anyone was particularly bothered by it, even Steph says she'll miss the bible being out. Maybe Alex learnt a few things, who knows!

Respecting organised religion does take away from my personal beliefs. If I respect someone for something I don't believe in and something that goes against what I am then that does compromise my beliefs and integrity. Simple as. Surely you can see that? I certainly respect you for being upstanding about this unlike Closet Christian #7823.

I believe in respect but to be perfectly honest - I don't figure organised religion into it. Why should I? It's such an abstract grey area without any definitive proof. Hence the word 'faith'.

Godwins law, I know, but do you respect Hitler's beliefs?

[Jack_]

I think 'accept' is the word people are looking for here. You don't have to respect anything, just accept it, and move on.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I think 'accept' is the word people are looking for here. You don't have to respect anything, just accept it, and move on.

EXACTLY.

Jack just killed this entire debate with one line.

[Ghostinthehouse]

Originally Posted by Ghostinthehouse
Why do you find it so hard to simply accept that there are many, many people in the world that do not have the same ideas or beliefs as you? And that if you wish to live in the world,(you're 19 years old you said didn't you?) as you get older you have to learn to respect others and their beliefs.

For example, when you have a family and children, you will have to accept, and respect ,their right to have a belief in Christianity if they want. Or would you disown them? Surely not? Don't you already have family members who have differing beliefs? Including in politics - which you mentioned in your post.

You also mention you come from Ireland? Surely then you understand how a lack of respect for religious beliefs and a lack of tolerance is a terrible thing?

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

I do not find it hard to believe many people exist in the world with different beliefs other than my own. It still does not mean I have to respect them.If religious beliefs do not respect my beliefs, why should I respect them?

Notice how you conveniently ignored everything in the post you 'replied to'.

It obvious that you also are defensive of the beliefs of others as you are insecure in your own beliefs. That is common in those who are not sure of themselves.

Fear is bad for you Judas. Let go of your fear.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I think 'accept' is the word people are looking for here. You don't have to respect anything, just accept it, and move on.

Are you playing voice of reason?!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Ghostinthehouse

Notice how you conveniently ignored everything in the post you 'replied to'.

It obvious that you also are defensive of the beliefs of others as you are insecure in your own beliefs. That is common in those who are not sure of themselves.

Fear is bad for you Judas. Let go of your fear.

And so you have outed yourself as a troll.

Well, it was fun whilst it lasted, but I am ignoring you from now on. Welcome to the ignore list ...

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

EXACTLY.

Jack just killed this entire debate with one line.

Originally Posted by Claymores

Are you playing voice of reason?!

[Ghostinthehouse]

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

EXACTLY.

Jack just killed this entire debate with one line.

Why does the debate cause you to overreact like that?

No debate is 'killed' by one person's disagreement. That is just silly. lol.
Debate is ABOUT differing opinions. A differing opinion sparks debate. LOL.

[Stu]

Not when it's something as simple as a misuse of terminology.

I accept Creationists beliefs, for example. I know what they believe.

I do not, however, respect them. And have no obligation to.






Jack one.

You zero.

[Girlinstatic]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

So, Ghostinthehouse, Girlinstatic etc, would you be perfectly happy if a Muslim HM insisted on:

(a) Reading lengthy bits of the Koran, on a daily basis, to fellow HMs.

(b) Ascribing everything to the will of Allah.

(c) Trying to make Alex into a Muslim.

(A) Yes if the housemates didn't seem bothered, and had the choice not to listen if they didn't wish to.

(B) Sure, since you don't have to believe it or anything. I would certainly listen to what they had to say without being rude or laughing.

(C) If Alex didn't mind then sure why not.

Alex has free will to get up and/or say no for himself, oui? He has his own mind! Also he let Stevie B believe he was interested, he even said at one point that he found it interesting! What's wrong with that?

And I respect anyones beliefs, I may not agree... and I may even be against, but if they want to believe something then it's not my place to judge or make sneering comments.

[Ghostinthehouse]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

So, Ghostinthehouse, Girlinstatic etc, would you be perfectly happy if a Muslim HM insisted on:

(a) Reading lengthy bits of the Koran, on a daily basis, to fellow HMs.

Jermaine Jackson quoted the Koran, and discussed it with HMs all the time. Why should there be a problem with that? They are free consenting adults.

(b) Ascribing everything to the will of Allah.

So what if he did? EVERYONE has free will to choose to believe him/her or not.

(c) Trying to make Alex into a Muslim.

Again, Alex is a free consenting adult it is not up to YOU or anyone to say he can't hear what a muslim or otherwise has to say.

Now, Caudle. I have answered your three questions, now YOU answer your three questions saying why you wouldn't be happy about those things.

[Jack_]

The 'respect others beliefs' argument is essentially to make the world a better place. Now, if we're all 'accepting' others beliefs, we are not insulting them, nor wanting them to die or anything of the sort, just accepting them, and moving on. That still makes the world 'a better place'.

[Stu]

Hitler believed in the holocaust. Respect his beliefs.

Both Godwin's law and cliched to hell, but in the context of this thread ... well ... respect him!

Religion is not accepting or respectful of many others beliefs ...

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

Hitler believed in the holocaust. Respect his beliefs.

This pretty much does what my point did, renders the term 'respect' pointless.

[Stu]

It really, really does, Any argument against it is just convoluted point dodging. Hitler believed in something. Should we respect that?

End. Of. Fucking. Story.