[bananarama]

If you want to see a real betrayal of British workers just look back to the 1980's and 90's.......

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by bananarama

If you want to see a real betrayal of British workers just look back to the 1980's and 90's.......

Yup - Think of Thatcher starving the coal miners' families into submission and effectively closing the deep mining industry in the UK

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Claymores

Yup - Think of Thatcher starving the coal miners' families into submission and effectively closing the deep mining industry in the UK

Thatcher didnt starve anyone, the miners went on strike because they didnt want to see their industry slimmed down to be competitive.

She didnt close any mines, due to the number of strikes in the UK industry other industries started buying in cheaper, though inferior in quality, stocks of coal from abroad. No market = no requirement for UK coal means no need for a labour force in the coal mining industry.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Thatcher didnt starve anyone, the miners went on strike because they didnt want to see their industry slimmed down to be competitive.

She didnt close any mines, due to the number of strikes in the UK industry other industries started buying in cheaper, though inferior in quality, stocks of coal from abroad. No market = no requirement for UK coal means no need for a labour force in the coal mining industry.

Another point of disagreement Shas - Thatcher vs Scragill became a battle of wills. In my area we have the highest quality of coal deep-mined and there is a deep seam that runs under the Forth. Regretrully, Thatcher's battle with Scargill resulted in the mines becoming flooded so it became unecomonic to restart working them and the pitheads are now housing estates. Fife used to get trains to run the crapola you're talking about from Central Scotland to fire it's slag burning power stations.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Claymores

Another point of disagreement Shas - Thatcher vs Scragill became a battle of wills. In my area we have the highest quality of coal deep-mined and there is a deep seam that runs under the Forth. Regretrully, Thatcher's battle with Scargill resulted in the mines becoming flooded so it became unecomonic to restart working them and the pitheads are now housing estates. Fife used to get trains to run the crapola you're talking about from Central Scotland to fire it's slag burning power stations.

Of course it became a battle of wills, but the points you make dont disagree with my comments in fact they support them. Thatcher didnt close any mines, it was the economics of reopening them that actually destroyed the mining industry, to save a few hundred jobs Scargill brought the industry down, costing thousands of jobs. It was the same in the area where I was raised.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Of course it became a battle of wills, but the points you make dont disagree with my comments in fact they support them. Thatcher didnt close any mines, it was the economics of reopening them that actually destroyed the mining industry, to save a few hundred jobs Scargill brought the industry down, costing thousands of jobs. It was the same in the area where I was raised.

I accept some of what you say - it was a bugger that the battle of wills turned into job losses.....it was not only the miners who lost industry, Methil dockyards closed as no high quality coal to move around, shops closed as no money floating about and the area I was raised became an area of multiple deprivation under the European Community (as was then) dafinition. Your "a few hundred" was thousands deep below the poverty line

I strongly remember when I was at Uni at the time, Socialist Worker collectors asking for 20p to stop Maggie starving the kids and I'd give a fiver then not eat for 2 days as skint.

Then Maggie tested the poll tax out on Scotland just to add insult to injury

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Claymores

I accept some of what you say - it was a bugger that the battle of wills turned into job losses.....it was not only the miners who lost industry, Methil dockyards closed as no high quality coal to move around, shops closed as no money floating about and the area I was raised became an area of multiple deprivation under the European Community (as was then) dafinition. Your "a few hundred" was thousands deep below the poverty line

I strongly remember when I was at Uni at the time, Socialist Worker collectors asking for 20p to stop Maggie starving the kids and I'd give a fiver then not eat for 2 days as skint.

Then Maggie tested the poll tax out on Scotland just to add insult to injury

Thats about the sum total of the whole situation, Scargill reckoned he had the NCB over a barrel with the knock on effect, and thought he was above everyone being in charge of what was at the time the most powerful union. Given the problems unions had caused the previous decade, government decided not to back down.

So they put Ian McGregor (wont use the nickname we have for him) in to lead the NCB. He planned on bringing in phased closures over 5 years leading to a total job loss of about 20,000 jobs, thats total jobs and not taking into account natural wastage etc.

I had lots of relatives working in the coal industry at the time and most of them didnt want the strike, just a fair chance at not losing their jobs, or if their pit was closing a reasonable chance of being relocated to a different one. Scargill called the strike illegally and the NUM union delegates were not representative of the mining workforce. The strike was called without national ballet and at the time was centred on a colliery in Yorkshire.

In the end because of the strike over 90% of the coal industry was deemed uneconomic. Added to that the suffering of the families, the knock on effect in both mining hinterlands and other related industries, but hey ho, old arthur still had his NUM salary and index linked pension. Well done Arthur.

As for the poll tax, I know I was living in Fife at the time it was introduced, was not impressed by that one.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by bananarama

If you want to see a real betrayal of British workers just look back to the 1980's and 90's.......

You mean when the Tories paved the way for everyone to be able to own their own home (Right to Buy), introduced the Assisted Places scheme to help children from poor families to be privately educated free of charge, curbed the out of control powers of unions who were holding the country to ransom, protected our borders from illegal immigrants, and reigned in the worse excesses of the Welfare State, now seen effectively as a means of income from cradle to grave for increasing numbers of wasters and scroungers? I know who I'd rather see in power and it isn't the bunch of self serving, incompetent, corrupt and greedy New Labour lot. For a party who are supposed to represent the working classes of this country, theirs has been the worst betrayal of all.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by angus58

You mean when the Tories paved the way for everyone to be able to own their own home (Right to Buy), introduced the Assisted Places scheme to help children from poor families to be privately educated free of charge, curbed the out of control powers of unions who were holding the country to ransom, protected our borders from illegal immigrants, and reigned in the worse excesses of the Welfare State, now seen effectively as a means of income from cradle to grave for increasing numbers of wasters and scroungers? I know who I'd rather see in power and it isn't the bunch of self serving, incompetent, corrupt and greedy New Labour lot. For a party who are supposed to represent the working classes of this country, theirs has been the worst betrayal of all.

Sounds about Perfect.