[Tom4784]

We don't agree much but I agree with Wombai's point, Brown's no better or worse then the others. The UK won't become any better regardless who wins.

Saying that though I say we give it to Lib Dems, they may have *****ed up when they were in charge last time (I think I remember Shas saying it was World War 1?) but to be fair anyone involved with the party then are probably long dead. It'd be a bit more interesting then another Labour/Tory win anyway because let's face it it doesn't really matter who wins, ***** all will change.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

We don't agree much but I agree with Wombai's point, Brown's no better or worse then the others. The UK won't become any better regardless who wins.

Saying that though I say we give it to Lib Dems, they may have *****ed up when they were in charge last time (I think I remember Shas saying it was World War 1?) but to be fair anyone involved with the party then are probably long dead. It'd be a bit more interesting then another Labour/Tory win anyway because let's face it it doesn't really matter who wins, ***** all will change.

One significant thing WILL change under the Tories and that will be regaining control of our borders. Uncontrolled immigration into this tiny island is the single most important issue that concerns most people whether they even realise it or not. The reason everything in this country is failing so badly is that all our resources are stretched to breaking point and buckling under sheer weight of numbers. Once we have proper immigration controls, this country will not only be more economically viable so far as its limited resources go, but an even more important issue is that the security of the country will be strengthened as we will know who is entering the country and for what reason. Genuine asylum seekers should always be allowed entry, that is a given. However, economic migration MUST be controlled - our social infrastructure is already breaking down.

LibDem's answer to the immigration issue? To give amnesty to the estimated 2.2million ILLEGAL immigrants in this country! The figure is staggering - 2.2 MILLION!!! More frightening is that, because they are illegal, they have not been subjected to normal background checks, so we have no idea who they are, where they are, or for what purpose they are in the country. Amnesty would also confer the right upon them to bring their relatives here as well. Talk about a lazy and impractical solution to a very serious problem. But as always the vastly privileged Clegg and his sidekicks will be fine, because they don't have to live in the real world with the rest of us, competing on a daily basis for accommodation, jobs, school places, hospital beds etc.

So Vote LibDem and get just another version of New Labour! What we need is decisive action, not pussyfooting around issues deemed too politically correct to debate with truth and honesty.

[Sticks]

The real villains are the media.

This was a private conversation in private.

So it was a sky microphone, they should still not have broadcast it.

suppose Sky News had secretly bugged a party leader to catch their private conversations and then broadcast it? They would be rightly condemmed for this invasion of privacy. This case is no different.

As for the old lady, we do not know what she said to ellicit this reaction. How about turning the spotlight on her?

As for immigration, any student of history will tell you we are all a nation of immigrants from the jutes, picts, normans, saxons and vikings et al. And this country is so much richer for it.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Sticks

The real villains are the media.

This was a private conversation in private.

So it was a sky microphone, they should still not have broadcast it.

suppose Sky News had secretly bugged a party leader to catch their private conversations and then broadcast it? They would be rightly condemmed for this invasion of privacy. This case is no different.

As for the old lady, we do not know what she said to ellicit this reaction. How about turning the spotlight on her?

As for immigration, any student of history will tell you we are all a nation of immigrants from the jutes, picts, normans, saxons and vikings et al. And this country is so much richer for it.

Yes, we know this is a nation of immigrants, practically every country on earth could say the same. This is the same old argument used by Labour to justify their total incompetence in overseeing fair and just immigration control. It doesn't take a degree in economics to understand that there is a finite amount of resources to go around. Uncontrolled immigration cannot be allowed to continue - I suggest you talk to many of the immigrants who are already here, as I have - you may be surprised to learn that they say the same because they are not idiots and realise that too many people competing for too few resources spells disaster for everyone.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Sticks

The real villains are the media.

we are the media

This was a private conversation in private.

So it was a sky microphone, they should still not have broadcast it.

And in the real world...

suppose Sky News had secretly bugged a party leader to catch their private conversations and then broadcast it? They would be rightly condemmed for this invasion of privacy. This case is no different.

intent

As for the old lady, we do not know what she said to ellicit this reaction. How about turning the spotlight on her?

we do and she was not bigoted she was expressing her view and her concerns. She does not have the benefit of an army of civil servants to bolster her world view, she tells it like she sees it and many agree with her

As for immigration, any student of history will tell you we are all a nation of immigrants from the jutes, picts, normans, saxons and vikings et al. And this country is so much richer for it.

No one denies this but the problem is uncontrolled numbers, no idea of who is here, no idea of cost to nation, no idea on impact on local jobs, no idea on impact on unemployment.

[AndyJK]

Originally Posted by Sticks

The real villains are the media.

This was a private conversation in private.

So it was a sky microphone, they should still not have broadcast it.

suppose Sky News had secretly bugged a party leader to catch their private conversations and then broadcast it? They would be rightly condemmed for this invasion of privacy. This case is no different.

As for the old lady, we do not know what she said to ellicit this reaction. How about turning the spotlight on her?

As for immigration, any student of history will tell you we are all a nation of immigrants from the jutes, picts, normans, saxons and vikings et al. And this country is so much richer for it.

Ah that old chestnut. Yes because the country was so much civilized in those days what with vikings busy raping, killing, pillaging and conquering their way through the country; Normans repressing Saxons, and Saxons oppressing Pics/Celts etc etc yes they all got on so well didnt they. And guess what, 2000 years later and we STILL hate each other which is why we have Scottish, Welsh and Irish nationalist parties who want to split from the rest pf the country.

Its a bull**** argument and you know it.

No one is against immigration. I have emigrated myself. Its the scale and amount of people who have arrived many unskilled and here to claim asylum to abuse a generous benefits system that people are pissed of with. And I know first hand due to my contacts in the health industry who have to deal with asylum seekers getting pregnant purely to get a passport to remain here.

Come down to the capital and see the effects yourself. You dont live in the real world.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by AndyJK

Ah that old chestnut. Yes because the country was so much civilized in those days what with vikings busy raping, killing, pillaging and conquering their way through the country; Normans repressing Saxons, and Saxons oppressing Pics/Celts etc etc yes they all got on so well didnt they. And guess what, 2000 years later and we STILL hate each other which is why we have Scottish, Welsh and Irish nationalist parties who want to split from the rest pf the country.

Its a bull**** argument and you know it.

No one is against immigration. I have emigrated myself. Its the scale and amount of people who have arrived many unskilled and here to claim asylum to abuse a generous benefits system that people are pissed of with. And I know first hand due to my contacts in the health industry who have to deal with asylum seekers getting pregnant purely to get a passport to remain here.

Come down to the capital and see the effects yourself. You dont live in the real world.

I'm not sure where you're coming from on this. Illegal immigrants mostly come to the country to be employed as slave labour by criminals, because it is still a step above the conditions they would have lived in previously. Others arrive as prostitutes and drug dealers. Preventing their entry into the UK isn't a matter of "tough policies" or standing up to "political correctness". Unilaterally speaking, the biggest threat posed by illegal immigration would benefit fraud as a result of being an undeclared worker. Not only is benefit fraud common among the indigenous population, it is also a significantly smaller fiscal cost to the governent than say... income tax evasion.

As for asylum seekers, I think it's worth mentioning that you actually need to be a British citizen to to claim any sort of benefit. I doubt very many asylum seekers make it beyond the stage of refugee camps anyway.

Of course there is the question of EU laws and freedom of movement. But shouldn't the question be "how can customs be so ineffective in tackling illegal immigration" rather than "since when were so many of these brown people able to get into our country?". And isn't this just what it boils down to regarding a lot of people's feelings on the matter? You pretend you are "not against immigration" all the while making out the idea that Britain is a country of immigrants to be a "bull**** argument".

[AndyJK]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

I'm not sure where you're coming from on this. Illegal immigrants mostly come to the country to be employed as slave labour by criminals, because it is still a step above the conditions they would have lived in previously. Others arrive as prostitutes and drug dealers. Preventing their entry into the UK isn't a matter of "tough policies" or standing up to "political correctness". Unilaterally speaking, the biggest threat posed by illegal immigration would benefit fraud as a result of being an undeclared worker. Not only is benefit fraud common among the indigenous population, it is also a significantly smaller fiscal cost to the governent than say... income tax evasion.

As for asylum seekers, I think it's worth mentioning that you actually need to be a British citizen to to claim any sort of benefit. I doubt very many asylum seekers make it beyond the stage of refugee camps anyway.

Of course there is the question of EU laws and freedom of movement. But shouldn't the question be "how can customs be so ineffective in tackling illegal immigration" rather than "since when were so many of these brown people able to get into our country?". And isn't this just what it boils down to regarding a lot of people's feelings on the matter? You pretend you are "not against immigration" all the while making out the idea that Britain is a country of immigrants to be a "bull**** argument".

Wait, firstly I don't "pretend" to be not against immigration so don't put words in to my mouth. I am against the system being abused. Plain and simple. Secondly who said anything about "brown people?" Certainly not I.

As for my argument with Sticks, I never said "Britain is a country of immigrants" to be "a "bull**** argument". I said using immigration during the dark ages, like vikings and such, to use as an argument to stop people questioning immigration today is wrong. The argument is not about immigration per sa, it is about the numbers of people coming here, whether we need and can accommodate them.

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

As for asylum seekers, I think it's worth mentioning that you actually need to be a British citizen to to claim any sort of benefit. I doubt very many asylum seekers make it beyond the stage of refugee camps anyway.

A single person claiming asylum gets £35.00 per week allowance, plus accommodation and other benefit entitlements depending on their circumstances. You are wrong as some asylum seekers can claim more benefits depending how much they have contributed to the system.