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Lucy. · 19-05-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Hence people will not speak up and state their opinions if they consider that they may not be popular ones on this forum - for fear of such an aggressive response from some posters! Free speech apparently is not so free - not on this forum! Makes a mockery of this being a debate forum!

It is not so much what you say, but the way you say it - you are just an aggressive twit who can think what the hell he likes - it doesn't bother me - as I know you don't speak for everyone!

Noone was aggressive. Get over it.
You have just turned to the blame game because you know you are up shit creek without a paddle.

InOne · 19-05-2010, 06:55 PM

WOMBAI, you know why everyone pounced on you, you should read back to that post and see how ridiculous it sounds. You've been proven wrong, you'll never admit it so best just to bow out.

Mrluvaluva · 19-05-2010, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

You know I value your opinion Setanta - but as I said - different experiences, different opinions! I am not going to lie about my feelings to please others! People can't force people to think the way they do by aggressive put-downs and name-calling - it doesn't work like that!

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. They are just expressing their opinions, experiences and knowledge. A good positive discussion with valid points have been known to actually educate open minded people and change some of their views. Myself included. No ulterior motive.

Shaun · 19-05-2010, 06:56 PM

There's also the inevitability that both of the "illnesses" at topic will lead to other health problems, so there's no real weight behind underestimating them: alcohol dependency will ultimately lead to liver + heart problems; anorexia to certain deficiencies and all sorts of problems.

Uuuh. I've lost my trail of thought. Yes, they're illnesses. Why am I arguing this?

Stu · 19-05-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Hence people will not speak up and state their opinions if they consider that they may not be popular ones on this forum - for fear of such an aggressive response from some posters! Free speech apparently is not so free - not on this forum! Makes a mockery of this being a debate forum!

It is not so much what you say, but the way you say it - you are just an aggressive twit who can think what the hell he likes - it doesn't bother me - as I know you don't speak for everyone!

You were wrong.

Stop pretending it's about opinions. It's not. You seeing pissheads being pissheads in the workplace is just you seeing how pissheads act. It has nothing to do with the greater situation! It's like me saying Anorexia is not a valid illness because I saw an anorexic climb a FUCKING tree!

Again you are relentlessly playing the victim. Nobody is stopping you from posting your opinion, it's just not in line with any fact based evidence that exists in the world of science, that's all. Post it away and people will attack it away. After all, this is a discussion forum.

I find it hillarious that nobody called you a name in this thread yet you still played the victim card, now it's you calling me the name.

Stu · 19-05-2010, 06:59 PM

You can condense the entire topic down to this one post :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well they've each been proven to be an addiction/disorder so this topic is pointless.

Mrluvaluva · 19-05-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

People can't force people to think the way they do by aggressive put-downs and name-calling - it doesn't work like that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

you are just an aggressive twit

Hmm. I think I may leave this thread before being accused of being childish or part of a witch hunt.

WOMBAI · 19-05-2010, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InOne

WOMBAI, you know why everyone pounced on you, you should read back to that post and see how ridiculous it sounds. You've been proven wrong, you'll never admit it so best just to bow out.

Sorry Inone - but I don't agree anything has been 'proven' one way or the other! What people fail to acknowledge is that even the 'experts' often disagree on whether certain conditions are really illnesses or not! Many disagree on ME for example, AHAD is another! Yes people with alcohol problems and anorexia eventually become physically ill - no disputing that - but my original comments were about the root causes!

InOne · 19-05-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Sorry Inone - but I don't agree anything has been 'proven' one way or the other! What people fail to acknowledge is that even the 'experts' often disagree on whether certain conditions are really illnesses or not! Many disagree on ME for example, AHAD is another! Yes people with alcohol problems and anorexia eventually become physically ill - no disputing that - but my original comments were about the root causes!

But it is a sweeping statement still. And they will often get debated with. Obviously mental health professionals disagree, but sweeping statements like that does no good for stigma and stops people opening up.

Stu · 19-05-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Sorry Inone - but I don't agree anything has been 'proven' one way or the other! What people fail to acknowledge is that even the 'experts' often disagree on whether certain conditions are really illnesses or not! Many disagree on ME for example, AHAD is another! Yes people with alcohol problems and anorexia eventually become physically ill - no disputing that - but my original comments were about the root causes!

Your original comment was a hideously misguided sweeping statement that marganalized plenty of genuine sufferers to the level of attention seeking neanderthals.

And like people have already said, it doesn't matter what caused it. Attention seeking or not. They need help and compassion. Nobody wants to be dying of anorexia, and I have yet to meet a drug addict who is happy with his state of affairs. I am a firm believer that people can be made better, no matter how or why they got themselves into the mess they are in.

Also, the topic asked were they illnesses and diseases. You explicity replied that they were just attention seekers, which would cause many to assume you did not think they were diseases or illnesses. Now all of a sudden you are admitting they are and it's just the root problems you were talking about?

Anyway, enough of me and my laughable moral outrage

.

WOMBAI · 19-05-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy.

Actually the NHS would tell you that you ARE wrong.

Publicly maybe - but personal opinions might be somewhat different!

Lucy. · 19-05-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Sorry Inone - but I don't agree anything has been 'proven' one way or the other! What people fail to acknowledge is that even the 'experts' often disagree on whether certain conditions are really illnesses or not! Many disagree on ME for example, AHAD is another! Yes people with alcohol problems and anorexia eventually become physically ill - no disputing that - but my original comments were about the root causes!

Well the experts who sectioned my friend for Anorexia certainly didn't think she was just 'attention seeking'. Case closed me thinks.

WOMBAI · 19-05-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy.

Well the experts who sectioned my friend for Anorexia certainly didn't think she was just 'attention seeking'. Case closed me thinks.

As I said - different experiences - you are coming at it from a different direction to me! And besides - did I not say - that I believed there were some genuine cases! Some people are overreacting big time to my words! It is not a personal attack on your friend - no need to take it that way! I don't know anything about her - so have no opinion!

Lucy. · 19-05-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!

Need I go on?

WOMBAI · 19-05-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy.

Need I go on?

"I believe that although there are some genuine cases"

Need I go on! You are assuming that I would think your friend was not a genuine case! As I said - I have no opinion on your friend - I know nothing about her!

Tom4784 · 19-05-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if they are illnesses then why is there no proper medicine?

You can't treat addiction with medication and you can only treat Anorexia with therapy and routine and such. I don't know enough about ME to talk about treatment but if it's medically proven to exist then there's little room for debate.

WOMBAI · 19-05-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by setanta

I'm not being aggressive here though. It's just a fact that they're illnesses with the patients deserving compassion and understanding.

I didn't mean you!

WOMBAI · 19-05-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy.

Noone was aggressive. Get over it.
You have just turned to the blame game because you know you are up shit creek without a paddle.

Lucy - to be fair - you don't know all the facts!

Tom4784 · 19-05-2010, 07:59 PM

As for the Wombai stuff, opinion doesn't matter in this topic it's all about fact. I could argue that air doesn't exist until I was blue in the face and say that it's my opinion but it doesn't make me right.

At the end of the day fully trained experts in these fields know a lot more about this then us and if they say it's real and have proved it then what is there to discuss?

setanta · 19-05-2010, 08:02 PM

I've always believed that you can be genetically predisposed to becoming addicted to alcohol, as you can with depression etc. So no, I think that the root of the problem doesn't detract from the empathy I have towards anyone with these afflictions.

Vicky. · 19-05-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well they've each been proven to be an addiction/disorder so this topic is pointless.

This tbh...

Though the topic has certainly opened my eyes about some stuff

Lucy. · 19-05-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

"I believe that although there are some genuine cases"

Need I go on! You are assuming that I would think your friend was not a genuine case! As I said - I have no opinion on your friend - I know nothing about her!

In the same way you know nothing about the majority of Alcholics and Anorexics yet you still think you can claim to know about the root of their problem.

WOMBAI · 19-05-2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy.

In the same way you know nothing about the majority of Alcholics and Anorexics yet you still think you can claim to know about the root of their problem.

I know about quite a few alcoholics actually - both personally and professionally! You really are making a lot of assumptions aren't you! You obviously know the majority of them then! One affected friend does not an expert make!

Lucy. · 19-05-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I know about quite a few alcoholics actually - both personally and professionally! You really are making a lot of assumptions aren't you! You obviously know the majority of them then! One affected friend does not an expert make!

Quit '!' at me it doesn't make your point any less ridiculous.