[Peter Plunker]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Again.. how are The New Ecstatics not a cult?

Because they don't meet any of the criteria of a cult.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

Because they don't meet any of the criteria of a cult.

OMG : joker::j oker::jo ker:

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

Because they don't meet any of the criteria of a cult.

"Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the nation’s leading experts on cult control, has produced a valuable work titled, Releasing the Bonds. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.

Consider the following:

(1) Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc.

Frequently, they even begin to imitate his mannerisms in terms of voice inflection, language patterns, aggressive attitudes, etc. They become clones of their esteemed leader. It is not uncommon that the leader knows of weaknesses or past problems of people within his group. Thus, through subtle intimidation and fear he keeps them under his control.

(2) “Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader.

Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leader’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.

Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”

(3) The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.

The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality.

(4) The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock.

Cult members become suspicious; they imbibe the critical disposition. “No one is really as sound as we are. We are an elitist group.” And so, seeds of isolationism are sown. The movement leader discourages reading any material, examining any ideas that he does not generate. He seeks to control the inflow of knowledge relative to his group.

Kip McKean has actually charged his followers not to read certain books dealing with mind control, characterizing any breach of this rule as sin (Hassan 2000, xvii). Jehovah’s Witnesses generally will not read any literature other than that published by the Watchtower Association.

(5) The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.

The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters.

(6) Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."


Really?

[-Sue-]

Originally Posted by vesavius

"Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the nation’s leading experts on cult control, has produced a valuable work titled, Releasing the Bonds. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.

Consider the following:

(1) Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc.

Frequently, they even begin to imitate his mannerisms in terms of voice inflection, language patterns, aggressive attitudes, etc. They become clones of their esteemed leader. It is not uncommon that the leader knows of weaknesses or past problems of people within his group. Thus, through subtle intimidation and fear he keeps them under his control.

(2) “Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader.

Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leader’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.

Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”

(3) The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.

The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality.

(4) The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock.

Cult members become suspicious; they imbibe the critical disposition. “No one is really as sound as we are. We are an elitist group.” And so, seeds of isolationism are sown. The movement leader discourages reading any material, examining any ideas that he does not generate. He seeks to control the inflow of knowledge relative to his group.

Kip McKean has actually charged his followers not to read certain books dealing with mind control, characterizing any breach of this rule as sin (Hassan 2000, xvii). Jehovah’s Witnesses generally will not read any literature other than that published by the Watchtower Association.

(5) The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.

The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters.

(6) Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."


Really?

lol.. god bless google lol..still loving your work my friend lol - you tell em

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by fingers

Jim Jones also brainwashed his followers to such an extent that they revered him and drank his poisoned Kool Aid killing 900 of them and making "the Reverend" one of the biggest mass murderers in peacetime.

Drama queens are out in full force I see!

[SoFarSoGood282]

Peter Plunker's answers are very like Dave's answers to Caoimhe!! Very vague!
Is he one of Dave's cult members??

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by SoFarSoGood282

Peter Plunker's answers are very like Dave's answers to Caoimhe!! Very vague!
Is he one of Dave's cult members??

Yes, but he won't tell us which one of them in the vids he is.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by vesavius

"Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the nation’s leading experts on cult control, has produced a valuable work titled, Releasing the Bonds. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.

Consider the following:

(1) Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc.

Frequently, they even begin to imitate his mannerisms in terms of voice inflection, language patterns, aggressive attitudes, etc. They become clones of their esteemed leader. It is not uncommon that the leader knows of weaknesses or past problems of people within his group. Thus, through subtle intimidation and fear he keeps them under his control.

(2) “Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader.

Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leader’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.

Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”

(3) The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.

The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality.

(4) The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock.

Cult members become suspicious; they imbibe the critical disposition. “No one is really as sound as we are. We are an elitist group.” And so, seeds of isolationism are sown. The movement leader discourages reading any material, examining any ideas that he does not generate. He seeks to control the inflow of knowledge relative to his group.

Kip McKean has actually charged his followers not to read certain books dealing with mind control, characterizing any breach of this rule as sin (Hassan 2000, xvii). Jehovah’s Witnesses generally will not read any literature other than that published by the Watchtower Association.

(5) The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.

The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters.

(6) Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."


Really?

That's fine - but how exactly does that relate to Dave?

[fingers]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

That's fine - but how exactly does that relate to Dave?

"There are none so blind......."

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Yes, but he won't tell us which one of them in the vids he is.

Why should he - and btw your attacks seem equally as vague - just opinions, no actual proof that Dave and his group are a 'cult'! Works both ways!

[crit]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Sounds bright enough to me!

Point proven.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

That's fine - but how exactly does that relate to Dave?

Read it again with an open mind and some objectivety.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Read it again with an open mind and some objectivety.

Now that's going to be REALLY difficult!

[SoFarSoGood282]

By definition it is a cult but as with all cults the members will never see it as one!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by fingers

"There are none so blind......."

It isn't me being blind - I am not at all religious, never have been and never likely to be, but you are on some blind campaign to 'out' someone who believes in something you don't agree with, or understand! I don't understand them either - but that doesn't mean Dave is the devil incarnate! From what I have seen of him in the house - he seems and ok guy - I will judge him on that until I have reason to do otherwise! There simply isn't any evidence to justify the attacks you keep making on him! All just hyperthetical and is becoming very boring!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by crit

Point proven.

In your dreams!

[-Sue-]

Originally Posted by fingers

Now that's going to be REALLY difficult!

lol

[Late for the Party]

Hello all, I am indeed late for the party but.....so what, i thought i would start off by quoting one of my favorite authors "Richard Dawkins"
"There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"
I assume everyone has seen the 'Deceptive Wine From Lake Land' video on youtube, it might just change your opinion on St.Dave, weather you are religious or not.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by FireTwilight

lol

I just don't have a closed mind like you lot! btw my vocabulary extends considerably further than lol!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Late for the Party

Hello all, I am indeed late for the party but.....so what, i thought i would start off by quoting one of my favorite authors "Richard Dawkins"
"There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"
I assume everyone has seen the 'Deceptive Wine From Lake Land' video on youtube, it might just change your opinion on St.Dave, weather you are religious or not.

We have been bombarded with these vids - hence some people fear what they don't understand!

[fingers]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

It isn't me being blind - I am not at all religious, never have been and never likely to be, but you are on some blind campaign to 'out' someone who believes in something you don't agree with, or understand! I don't understand them either - but that doesn't mean Dave is the devil incarnate! From what I have seen of him in the house - he seems and ok guy - I will judge him on that until I have reason to do otherwise! There simply isn't any evidence to justify the attacks you keep making on him! All just hyperthetical and is becoming very boring!

The quote is "there are none so blind as those who WILL not see"

Just to help you out!

[crit]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

We have been bombarded with these vids - hence some people fear what they don't understand!

Again point proven...you really should double check your posts for irony and pot kettle black syndrome before you hit the send button.

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Yes, but he won't tell us which one of them in the vids he is.

Just look for the ugliest one looking adoringly at Dave...

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by fingers

The quote is "there are none so blind as those who WILL not see"

Just to help you out!

Just as you WILL NOT see - that his belief's are harmless and no threat to you!

[fingers]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Just as you WILL NOT see - that his belief's are harmless and no threat to you!

For newcomers, this is what WOBBLE is defending:

http://reformedpilgrim.wordpress.com...d-big-brother/