[Livia]

Originally Posted by Late for the Party

I agree with you, but not on the religious conviction. Religious conviction can be very dangerous, causes tension, breeds sectarianism, causes wars ect. ect.
My point still stands

If Dave had been on some kind of crusade and demanded people act in a certain way because he's there, I might start to agree with you. But he hasn't. I think it's your own views, rather than Dave's, that causes tension, breeds sectarianism etc. etc. Dave seems to be very much a 'live and let live' kind of person.

[Peter Plunker]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

HOW MANY PEOPLE HAS HE CURED OF CANCER ?
HOW MANY LIMBS HAS HE GROWN BACK ?
If the answer (and PLEASE dont even try to tell me he has ) to these question is NONE ,There is the proof of him being a conman and a Charlatan

Why ask a question if you won't accept the answer? Just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

Why ask a question if you won't accept the answer? Just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Answer it then

[Peter Plunker]

I already have as you well know.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Late for the Party

I agree with you, but not on the religious conviction. Religious conviction can be very dangerous, causes tension, breeds sectarianism, causes wars ect. ect.
My point still stands

Your point doesn't stand. Just because you 'ASSERT VERY HARD' something doesn't make it wise or even reasonable.

I suggest you are an intellectual hypocrite who's personal subjective religious beliefs get in the way of reason.
Why?
In fact, atheism could be 'very dangerous', certainly causes tensions, breeds militant party loyalty (sectarianism) and cause the largest mass murders in human history,
yet,
you would not ask that anyone be barred from entering because, among other things, they believe in a godless Universe.

Bogus psychics, astrologers, believers in ghosts and mediums could cause a lot of tension, inflame people and take those beliefs to nefarious war and suffering. We know many core Nazis had their beginnings in these 'supernaturalism/astrology' cults,
yet,
we would not say that a HM who is a 'medium' or believes in ghosts and fortune-telling is barred from entering.

As for your 'antitheism' I would have to expect you are antigovernment too. After all - look at what has been done in the name of government!
Remember what government did in Italy?
It was because of dedication to government that Mao and other government believers starved people to death!
Government also causes a lot of tension and partisanship (sectarianism) and you cannot tolerate that right?

You also made a complaint about 'balance' and here I'd agree that David's worldview is not very representative of society at large or Christianity and is really a small fringe group,
but,
if you are worried about balance then we should see somewhere around 2/3 of HMs identifying themselves as 'practicing Christians' to some degree until 'believing there is some force up there' and to 'agnostics',
but,
if it was 'balance' we wanted then just a few would ever be 'atheists'.
In which case they should not be allowed in for those 1 or 2 Atheists could cause division, tension, bad feelings etc.
So you would not want them there I suppose?

[fingers]

When he gets out he is going to use the BB thing as HIS proof that God put him in there for a reason, He's not going to say that that reason was to recruit more deluded and brainwashed people for the Emerge Waleles cult is he now?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Late for the Party

But so many more aren't.
Lets face it, we are all fairly thick skinned here, no-one on this forums are going to rush to Wales to join his sect, but what about the poor fools who actually do, time will tell what will become of them, i won't speculate, and probably not thing will happen, but no-one can be sure, and it is a risk putting him in there, His ego will be inflated 100% by the time he is realesed onto the public.

Which is why I probably shouldn't/wouldn't be allowed into the big brother house.

I come from a place where over a hundred languages are recognised, where Muslims put up Christmas trees and where Christians give their Hindu neighbours chocs and candles for Diwali. It's not always a love-in, but people mostly rub along together, and that's because they're not a mystery to each other. Religion is a reality, and by making things secular you're making it mysterious and separate from life.

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

Why ask a question if you won't accept the answer? Just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

So St Dave HAS cured cancer & grown back peoples limbs then?? Proof please...

[flamingGalah!]

I'd like the names & contact details of the people he has cured & their GP's numbers too...

[Colbert-Bump]

Dave hasn't cured anybody & personally I couldn't give a s**t, still think he's a great housemate.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

I am not reading all this utter BS ,But will pull you up on one thing in the first couple of lines
HOW MANY PEOPLE HAS HE CURED OF CANCER ?
HOW MANY LIMBS HAS HE GROWN BACK ?
If the answer (and PLEASE dont even try to tell me he has ) to these question is NONE ,There is the proof of him being a conman and a Charlatan

Didn't the Mad monk Rasputin claim to cure Alexei (Tsar Nicholas only son) of hemophilia. All his powers (imagined) came to nothing. I can't help but think BBs own Friar Tuck might be related to Rasputin. Fancy telling Steve he could make his legs grow back, not to mention that he claims to cure people of cancer. Well we know what happened to Rasputin so I'm sure Dave will sooner or later be brought back down to earth.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Colbert-Bump

Dave hasn't cured anybody & personally I couldn't give a s**t, still think he's a great housemate.

Even though hes's a charlatan preaching a false gospel of hope for cancer victims and amputees?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by flamingGalah!

I'd like the names & contact details of the people he has cured & their GP's numbers too...

Photos before and after ,and why didnt they sell their stories to the papers ? and why dont Drs all over the world send people to him to save the price of cancer treatment which is sky high and why are cancer research still doing research into finding a cure if all along there is a cure in a back bedroom in South Wales,and why did surgeons take of one of my boobs ,give me harrowing chemo and radiotherapy ,10 yrs of expensive drugs ? I may sue the National Health

[Peter Plunker]

Originally Posted by flamingGalah!

So St Dave HAS cured cancer & grown back peoples limbs then?? Proof please...

No. God does that. Don't know of any limbs growing back (yet) but at least one cancer. I've seen hundreds of healings over the years, everything from coughs and sneezes to aids and people getting out of wheelchairs, God is more than able. In fact my Wife was healed of diabetes insipidis and a crumbling pituitary gland, mri scans show it is restored.

As for proof, you either believe it or you don't but there have been thousands of documented healings.

[Colbert-Bump]

Originally Posted by fingers

Even though hes's a charlatan preaching a false gospel of hope for cancer victims and amputees?

If people are dumb enough to believe all that rubbish, more fool them.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

No. God does that. Don't know of any limbs growing back (yet) but at least one cancer. I've seen hundreds of healings over the years, everything from coughs and sneezes to aids and people getting out of wheelchairs, God is more than able. In fact my Wife was healed of diabetes insipidis and a crumbling pituitary gland, mri scans show it is restored.

As for proof, you either believe it or you don't but there have been thousands of documented healings.

Do you mean the video of Dave in the wheelchair ? did he walk again ? Bechams powders cure colds ,not God and DAVE SAID ON NATIONAL TV HE HAD CURED CANCER

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Peter Plunker

No. God does that. Don't know of any limbs growing back (yet) but at least one cancer. I've seen hundreds of healings over the years, everything from coughs and sneezes to aids and people getting out of wheelchairs, God is more than able. In fact my Wife was healed of diabetes insipidis and a crumbling pituitary gland, mri scans show it is restored.

As for proof, you either believe it or you don't but there have been thousands of documented healings.

The only one getting out of a wheelchair that I have seen is St. Dave himself, to have a laff with his mates over their latest "prank"

[Late for the Party]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Your point doesn't stand.

No my point is still valid

Originally Posted by ElProximo

I suggest you are an intellectual hypocrite who's personal subjective religious beliefs get in the way of reason.

What reason, there is no reason, and once again, i am not religious, i have NO RELIGIOUS BELIFES therfore none to "get in the way of reason" but feel free to suggest what ever you want, it doesn't make you right, its only your opinion

Originally Posted by ElProximo

In fact, atheism could be 'very dangerous', certainly causes tensions, breeds militant party loyalty (sectarianism)

which is why an outspoken athiest shouldn't be allowed into the BB house,

Originally Posted by ElProximo

and cause the largest mass murders in human history,

False

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Bogus psychics, astrologers, believers in ghosts and mediums could cause a lot of tension, inflame people and take those beliefs to nefarious war and suffering. We know many core Nazis had their beginnings in these 'supernaturalism/astrology' cults,
yet,
we would not say that a HM who is a 'medium' or believes in ghosts and fortune-telling is barred from entering.

Yet no-one wants nazis in there, whats you point, I do think bogus psychics, astrologers and mediums should be barred from entry

Originally Posted by ElProximo

As for your 'antitheism' I would have to expect you are antigovernment too.

To a certian extent yes, i am, but thats not the conversation we're having

Originally Posted by ElProximo

In which case they should not be allowed in for those 1 or 2 Atheists could cause division, tension, bad feelings etc.
So you would not want them there I suppose?

Hey looks like we finally found something we can agree on

[Late for the Party]

Originally Posted by Livia

I come from a place where over a hundred languages are recognised, where Muslims put up Christmas trees and where Christians give their Hindu neighbours chocs and candles for Diwali. It's not always a love-in, but people mostly rub along together, and that's because they're not a mystery to each other. Religion is a reality, and by making things secular you're making it mysterious and separate from life.

Thats a very good point, but in my opinion, religion is "very mysterious and separate from life" anyway, and has no place in a modern society, and it, without any shadow of a doubt, should not be trust onto a child from birth, which it is, and (in my opinion) is wrong.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by flamingGalah!

I'd like the names & contact details of the people he has cured & their GP's numbers too...

Do you think their GPs would give you any information?

[Late for the Party]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Do you think their GPs would give you any information?

Thats not the point he is making and you know it.
If i made a post saying shabby is back in th BB house, the first 5 responses would be "source" or "links or it didn't happen"
So Peter Plunker i say too you, with great pleasure
PROOF OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Late for the Party

Thats a very good point, but in my opinion, religion is "very mysterious and separate from life" anyway, and has no place in a modern society, and it, without any shadow of a doubt, should not be trust onto a child from birth, which it is, and (in my opinion) is wrong.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I have elderly relatives who lived through the Holocaust, and many more died as a result of it. I believe that only by learning to understand and accept each other and allowing each person the freedom to choose can we avoid it happening again.

[fingers]

It didn't happen, that is pretty obvious in spite of the spin that certain people ( actually the usual Suspects) put on it!

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Late for the Party

Thats a very good point, but in my opinion, religion is "very mysterious and separate from life" anyway, and has no place in a modern society, and it, without any shadow of a doubt, should not be trust onto a child from birth, which it is, and (in my opinion) is wrong.

Fascinating. (well.. maybe not) but you certainly have a unique way of looking at life.
I say you still have a huge problem with 'cognitive dissonance' (not a problem if it doesn't bother you I suppose) but here is the problem;
You want to called some things as 'wrong' and have them disallowed.
Fair enough,
yet,
you then make it clear there is no way for which to measure what is 'wrong' or 'right'.
This can 'double up on itself' at each turn because you would have to agree that BB's 'opinion' or 'choice' to put David in the house is no more or less valid than your own.

Suit yourself but I'd have to believe this kind of convoluted thinking has to lead to your eventual insanity.
Well not before self-medicating along the way right?

[Late for the Party]

Originally Posted by Livia

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Livia

only by learning to understand and accept each other and allowing each person the freedom to choose can we avoid it happening again.

Also i agree 100%, but that hypothetical new born child dosen't have the power to say no when getting baptised, thats really the point.

Now of course, when they grow older the do have the power to say no and reject what they have been told, but that rarely happens, and even then its not fair, because hypothetical teenager, dosen't have a totally unbiased view on life and religion, because they have already been indoctrinated into whatever religion, therefore can't make an un-biased decision.

Its just a subject i feel strongly about, and i don't mean to offend anyone.

I mean in every town in this country (Ireland) parents have a choice weather to send there child to either a Catholic or Protestant school. They have no other choice, even if your Muslim, Jewish, Rasta, whatever. Once you get into secondary school its mixed, but the divide is still there, Catholic's sit at the back of the class room, Protestant's sit at the front. This is basically where my HATE(<strong word) for anything religious came from.
Therefore i do accept that my view is totally biased, but no-one here (yet) has provided un-biased view of the situtation.