[Angus]

Originally Posted by setanta

Nothing productive will ever be done when we continue to call them "bastards" and the like. Look, I totally understand where you're coming from, and the resentment and anger you feel towards the individual offender and a negligent judicial system, but like I said before, they'll continue to spring up again and again until we learn more about them through science and observation in a contained enviroment.

I know all that, but you have still not come up with any viable alternative to a lengthy stay at her majesty's pleasure. My beef is that the sentences are laughable and are no deterrent or, more to the point, protection for children in particular.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I read that topic and nobody defended the parents so you can stop right there.

angus58,kazanne and bb eye did tell the members off that were making sick jokes.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by angus58

What utter patronising bull****! Your understanding of parenthood is zero if you are equating it to a mere biological function, instead of the lifelong, 24/7 love, care, and protection we give our children. What the ***** do you know about that except from a purely academic point of view? You have then gone on to say that since the children are not YOURS the crime can be viewed as neutral - well there you have the crux of the disagreement between parents and non parents on this forum. Though this crime involved a baby not related to me, BECAUSE I am a parent I can empathise TOTALLY with the parents of that child and I know exactly how they would be feeling and the hatred they feel towards the abuser.

It is very easy to be oh so reasonable and distant when you are NOT emotionally involved. The very least the parents of an abused child should be able to expect is that the judicial system punishes the abuser appropriately which, for me, would be locking them up and throwing away the key.

And just for the record, if you truly think that being a parent is simply dipping your wick and fertilising an egg, I suggest you remain childless. A child deserves total emotional investment, and if you don't GET that, maybe you will when you grow up.

Meanwhile don't bother lecturing me about parenthood - your own statements regarding your understanding of what it is to have a child have betrayed your immaturity and insensitivity so your opinion is pretty much compromised.

The fact you're a parent alarms me. You're a melodramatic mess.

You actually make my skin crawl. No wonder society's in such disrepute when figures like yourself - with this unwarranted belief that because you have semen/an egg and used it you're better and more informed than everyone - equate to the majority.

[Beastie]

Err I also find it disgusting that apparently criminals in jail might be able to have a job.. AND also get paid 12 grand a year. DISGUSTING. People in the real world can't even get a 12 grand a year job. Plus the crimimals still have a RENT FREE life in jail.

Prisoners SHOULD work when they are in jail too. Get them to the streets. Chain them on the roads and make them sweep the streets up!! Be treated like slaves with NO wage. They still get free food, water and shelter!! but no money!!!!

Too much pussy footing around in this country......

Prisoners should be treated like on that film.... "Cool hand Luke". That was good

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I think you should think before you say those things to Angus.maybe you should re- read her post.a bit of sensitivity here would be nice.

Why? in fairness she's done nothing but deride me and others throughout the topic and used the kids as an excuse to do so, Shaun said it the best when he said being a mother doesn't instantly make you a genius on the subject or more entitled to an opinion the people without.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

angus58,kazanne and bb eye did tell the members off that were making sick jokes.

Making jokes and defending the parents are two different things.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Lucy.

As always my point is missed. Prison cells are not 'cushy'. I never said they should get equal treatment that's a pile of bollocks, I said they shouldn't have their rights stripped as that reduces you to their level. Their loss of freedom is the punishment. There are many errors within the criminal justice system, I have never once said otherwise, but deciding to kill people isn't right. That's all there is to it, you have your opinion I have mine, I am now leaving, goodbye!

You are still putting words into mine and others' mouths to suit your own argument. The whole point of this debate is that the prison sentences are laughably lenient and therefore the loss of freedom for a short period is NOT deterrent. If, as a lot of people believe, such people are "sick", they should NEVER be released to re-offend, so why are they? And since justice has therefore not been served, it seems the answer according to you is "oh well".

It's easy to do a runner when you have a weak argument isn't it?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Making jokes and defending the parents are two different things.

but kazanne and angus58 said think about the parents.

[Mystic Mock]

i think we should be more like thailand but instead chop serial killers and pedophiles hands off.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by angus58

You are still putting words into mine and others' mouths to suit your own argument. The whole point of this debate is that the prison sentences are laughably lenient and therefore the loss of freedom for a short period is NOT deterrent. If, as a lot of people believe, such people are "sick", they should NEVER be released to re-offend, so why are they? And since justice has therefore not been served, it seems the answer according to you is "oh well".

It's easy to do a runner when you have a weak argument isn't it?

We can't make exceptions though, the law can't be grey it has to be black and White otherwise it's pointless. Everyone has to be treated the same otherwise we might as well give in to anarchy.

[Lucy.]

Originally Posted by angus58

You are still putting words into mine and others' mouths to suit your own argument. The whole point of this debate is that the prison sentences are laughably lenient and therefore the loss of freedom for a short period is NOT deterrent. If, as a lot of people believe, such people are "sick", they should NEVER be released to re-offend, so why are they? And since justice has therefore not been served, it seems the answer according to you is "oh well".

It's easy to do a runner when you have a weak argument isn't it?

I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth, they've said them themselves. Justice has not been served according to YOU and thankfully you don't rule the justice system or the country would be even more ****ed than it is with your dramatic take on everything. You think my arguement is weak, I think yours is unfounded. Ever heard of people leaving because they cannot be ****ed to argue with someone who reads things the way they want and spends the whole arguement telling everyone else what to do and think? Well that's what you call this, not a "runner".

[Beastie]

I say "test" the couple on their "sexual" fantasies. Let's bring Jigsaw out!! Set them a sexual fantasy trap!! Depending how their mind is on the "will to leave" they could survive.. they could not??

Bring on the saw traps!!!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

but kazanne and angus58 said think about the parents.

They aren't the authority on the matter, people make off colour jokes. It happens all the tiem on here. It doesn't mean anyone agrees or defend what happened.

Learn to think for yourself.

[Lee.]

To add my opinion to this argument... It may not be morally correct or blah blah blah, but if anyone harmed/abused/tortured/murdered my child, I would want that person dead. It's as simple as that! My OH and I were talking about Jamie Bulger and Baby P the other night and agreed that any rational thoughts would go out the window.. I'd probably kill them myself in fact.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Lucy.

I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth, they've said them themselves. Justice has not been served according to YOU and thankfully you don't rule the justice system or the country would be even more ****ed than it is with your dramatic take on everything. You think my arguement is weak, I think yours is unfounded. Ever heard of people leaving because they cannot be ****ed to argue with someone who reads things the way they want and spends the whole arguement telling everyone else what to do and think? Well that's what you call this, not a "runner".

if you dont think 10 years max on killing people isnt soft then i dread to think how you would run the country tbh.

[Lucy.]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

if you dont think 10 years max on killing people isnt soft then i dread to think how you would run the country tbh.

Did I say I thought that? Oh no, I didn't.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by happyland

To add my opinion to this argument... It may not be morally correct or blah blah blah, but if anyone harmed/abused/tortured/murdered my child, I would want that person dead. It's as simple as that! My OH and I were talking about Jamie Bulger and Baby P the other night and agreed that any rational thoughts would go out the window.. I'd probably kill them myself in fact.

i agree, say somebody gave me a knife to kill ian huntley i would kill him there and then.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

if you dont think 10 years max on killing people isnt soft then i dread to think how you would run the country tbh.

The country ran better when there was tougher sentences.

[Tom4784]

I'm glad that a lot of people in this topic will never have power or control of anything regarding how this country is run.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by thebeast

The country ran better when there was tougher sentences.

Yup because Capital punishment has made America a crime free zone.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm glad that a lot of people in this topic will never have power or control of anything regarding how this country is run.

yeah we have the currupt leaders instead yay.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yup because Capital punishment has made America a crime free zone.

thats only because america is an extremely big country.

[InOne]

I remember a facebook debate once, where a few of us labelled people who went on about violence and killing as "foamers". Because you could just imagine them foaming at the mouth with the thoughts of these sadistic acts they could so 'easily' commit. When the fact is most aren't even capable of torturing a frog.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I'm not even going to start. The fact you're a parent alarms me. You're a melodramatic mess.

It just shows the depths of your immaturity and idiocy that you try to score points by attempting to insult my worth as a parent, and attempting to dismiss my views as "melodramatic". A typical male ploy towards a woman when they're losing an argument! It would only be taken seriously by me if of course your opinions had any validity which, in fact, they don't. I have tell you my dear your views on parenthood are truly laughable.

I know I'M a good parent, but the jury is still out on you. Come back in 20 years time when you have some idea of what it is to be one.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yup because Capital punishment has made America a crime free zone.

There will NEVER be a crime free zone but it will reduce the crime if there is harsher punishments. Too much pussy footing in the UK.

My statement is just a generalisation. There are people still out there who have done far worse than this thread story.

Too much pussy footing as in.. "oh everyone is mentally ill nowadays" wah wah. People can't take responsibilty for their actions.. cowards!!