[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by InOne

It is an interesting topic and a good one to discuss. Glad it didn't get personal or anything. And at least it shows we all have emotions!

yes but nobody is evil on here really are they?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

yes but nobody is evil on here really are they?

You can never be sure when it comes to the internet, never become lenient.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

yes but nobody is evil on here really are they?

I doubt it lol

[InOne]

'Evil' is a pretty strong word though. Obviously you'll get odd people and weridos, but don't think the really bad ones would be on here

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You can never be sure when it comes to the internet, never become lenient.

oh i know not to do that.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by InOne

'Evil' is a pretty strong word though. Obviously you'll get odd people and weridos, but don't think the really bad ones would be on here

I do weird. I'm not bad though lol

[InOne]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

I do weird. I'm not bad though lol

I'm probs the same

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by InOne

I'm probs the same

[Mystic Mock]

i honestly thought at one point the thread would be closed because it was getting so heated.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

i honestly thought at one point the thread would be closed because it was getting so heated.

It did get a bit But it was sorted

[setanta]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

i honestly thought at one point the thread would be closed because it was getting so heated.

Nah, rarely happens in debates, unless somebody gets too personal or insulting. And even then it doesn't usually end up with the thread being closed.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I wasn't aware you had an encyclopaedic knowledge of all our lives. Who are you to say if we've lived or suffered loss? I lost my uncle to a knifing in a churchyard yet did I want the murderer dead? NO. I felt incredible anger I won't deny that I still do now but the killer's death wouldn't have brought my uncle back and it wouldn't have eased my family's pain. He's still dead and we would still grieve.

How dare you make such assumptions on our lives, acting all superior to us when you know nothing of adversity we've faced in our lives.

I know how the law works and I know what it is to lose someone so don't you DARE tell me otherwise just because I don't believe in capital punishment.

And yet you presumed to understand how I felt and you seem to think you havethe right to tell me that the way I think about this issue is wrong and you are right. And no I don't think I would feel as you did, I would want justice, and yes it would make me feel better to know that the perpetrator was no longer living or breathing or able to hurt anyone else. The thought of them still enjoying life after depriving another of theirs would be repugnant and unjust to me. The problem I have with people who oppose capital punishment is that they don't really have any viable or effective alternatives to put on the table since statistics show that rehabilitation has a poor success rate and criminals are free to re-offend and destroy others' lives after a paltry few years in prison.

The fact you reacted differently to how I would have does not give you the moral high ground or entitle you to lecture me on how I ought to react. This whole argument started because I stated what I personally would do if anyone hurt my child and immediately I was jumped on and criticised for feeling that way. It seems a fair few share my view and a fair few support yours - but that's the nature of debate is it not?

The fact that I would want to see proper justice served does not make me an immoral person. I would be satisfied if the Judicial system was, in fact, based on justice and equity, but it is not. I have no problem if you are prepared to accept the pitiful justice meted out to murderers, that is your choice. But I will never feel that way - it goes against all notions of right and wrong and natural justice.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by angus58

And yet you presumed to understand how I felt and you seem to think you havethe right to tell me that the way I think about this issue is wrong and you are right. And no I don't think I would feel as you did, I would want justice, and yes it would make me feel better to know that the perpetrator was no longer living or breathing or able to hurt anyone else. The thought of them still enjoying life after depriving another of theirs would be repugnant and unjust to me. The problem I have with people who oppose capital punishment is that they don't really have any viable or effective alternatives to put on the table since statistics show that rehabilitation has a poor success rate and criminals are free to re-offend and destroy others' lives after a paltry few years in prison.

The fact you reacted differently to how I would have does not give you the moral high ground or entitle you to lecture me on how I ought to react. This whole argument started because I stated what I personally would do if anyone hurt my child and immediately I was jumped on and criticised for feeling that way. It seems a fair few share my view and a fair few support yours - but that's the nature of debate is it not?

The fact that I would want to see proper justice served does not make me an immoral person. I would be satisfied if the Judicial system was, in fact, based on justice and equity, but it is not. I have no problem if you are prepared to accept the pitiful justice meted out to murderers, that is your choice. But I will never feel that way - it goes against all notions of right and wrong and natural justice.

I think it really boils down to whether or not you believe that capital punishment is a viable solution to the problems in society, and I don't really. That's the crux of the matter.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by setanta

I think it really boils down to whether or not you believe that capital punishment is a viable solution to the problems in society, and I don't really. That's the crux of the matter.

i think you would see crime rate dropping alot.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

i think you would see crime rate dropping alot.

Hasn't happened in the States.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by setanta

Hasn't happened in the States.

because they are a much bigger country than the uk and there land of the free policy dosent help them either.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

It did get a bit But it was sorted

I don't see how such an issue can be discussed without it being highly charged since it is a very emotive subject. What it has thrown up is the diametrically opposed views - there is no middle ground really. Regardless of whether or not capital punishment is a deterrent (which I believe it is), what is wrong with the concept of natural justice, or an eye for an eye? That is the meaning of justice for goodness sakes. How have we gone from one extreme to another in a few short years, to the extent that criminals have more rights than victims in some cases?

[Kerry]

The States is massive. You can't possibly compare the two

[setanta]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

because they are a much bigger country than the uk and there land of the free policy dosent help them either.

I really thinks that irrelevant to be honest with you because I'm sure there's other countries with capital punishment who haven't seen a dramatic drop in killings when compared to countries who continue with life sentences.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by angus58

And yet you presumed to understand how I felt and you seem to think you havethe right to tell me that the way I think about this issue is wrong and you are right. And no I don't think I would feel as you did, I would want justice, and yes it would make me feel better to know that the perpetrator was no longer living or breathing or able to hurt anyone else. The thought of them still enjoying life after depriving another of theirs would be repugnant and unjust to me. The problem I have with people who oppose capital punishment is that they don't really have any viable or effective alternatives to put on the table since statistics show that rehabilitation has a poor success rate and criminals are free to re-offend and destroy others' lives after a paltry few years in prison.

The fact you reacted differently to how I would have does not give you the moral high ground or entitle you to lecture me on how I ought to react. This whole argument started because I stated what I personally would do if anyone hurt my child and immediately I was jumped on and criticised for feeling that way. It seems a fair few share my view and a fair few support yours - but that's the nature of debate is it not?

The fact that I would want to see proper justice served does not make me an immoral person. I would be satisfied if the Judicial system was, in fact, based on justice and equity, but it is not. I have no problem if you are prepared to accept the pitiful justice meted out to murderers, that is your choice. But I will never feel that way - it goes against all notions of right and wrong and natural justice.

I never told you how you should react, I just gave my own opinion on the matter and from my own experiences. I never forced my opinion down your throat I just debated your opinion like you did mine. The only time I truly took exception was that whole parent business and your reliance and telling us that we could never have a handle on the siuation because we aren't parents. I didn't like that and I still don't.

I believe sentences need to be made longer as I agree that sometimes they are lenient but the equity thing just leads to an eye for an eye which I believe in the end doesn't help anyone. You have every right to disagree of course but that's my opinion.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by angus58

I don't see how such an issue can be discussed without it being highly charged since it is a very emotive subject. What it has thrown up is the diametrically opposed views - there is no middle ground really. Regardless of whether or not capital punishment is a deterrent (which I believe it is), what is wrong with the concept of natural justice, or an eye for an eye? That is the meaning of justice for goodness sakes. How have we gone from one extreme to another in a few short years, to the extent that criminals have more rights than victims in some cases?

You misunderstand me. I believe in an eye for an eye. If someone harmed my daughter I'd bloody kill them. But I don't want to argue about it.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by setanta

I think it really boils down to whether or not you believe that capital punishment is a viable solution to the problems in society, and I don't really. That's the crux of the matter.

Well since the Judiciary does not invoke the full force of the law, ie life should mean life, is it any surprise that people want this scum removed from society one way or another? If proper sentences were handed down, and adhered to, it would be justice, but as things stand there is none.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by angus58

Well since the Judiciary does not invoke the full force of the law, ie life should mean life, is it any surprise that people want this scum removed from society one way or another? If proper sentences were handed down, and adhered to, it would be justice, but as things stand there is none.

Have to admit I'm sick of a life sentence meaning 6 years and suchlike

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by angus58

Well since the Judiciary does not invoke the full force of the law, ie life should mean life, is it any surprise that people want this scum removed from society one way or another? If proper sentences were handed down, and adhered to, it would be justice, but as things stand there is none.

this.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

Have to admit I'm sick of a life sentence meaning 6 years and suchlike

me to.