[Stu]

Originally Posted by Zee

Surely you've listened to an album that's thrown up surprisingly good song(s)? I doubt Justin Bieber would record a song that challenges ideas or expresses controversial views because he's aimed at a fanbase that would not appreciate such material; but plenty of other artists do so in this day and age; I think I understand the point MM&I is trying to make, that a lot of people rubbish all of modern music because it's not the golden era of music anymore. He then went and undermined his argument by trying to justify his favourite singer (emphasis on singer) as a reason why modern music is not crap, but on the whole I agree it's a bit annoying after a while to read 'ugh, all music is crap compared to the 60s' because that's just as much of a narrow view as someone whose favourite music is today's music rubbishing the work of The Beatles.

p.s. My world has been shattered, Shaun doesn't listen to everything ever.

p.p.s. I did not say Shaun's the only one allowed a valid opinion, what a ridiculous assumption, I said "I think the only TiBB member who can genuinely say that they do that is Shaun, which is why by and large you should all bow down to his opinions - at least they're informed, therefore there's more validity in what he's saying" by which I meant he listens to albums and reviews them, rather than spouting off opinions like MM&I's which are entirely baseless. I did not say Shaun's the only person with a valid opinion, I said there's more validity in what he's saying because we know he actually makes the effort to research before opening his mouth.

I'm tired of this notion that people who are fans of 'old' music [what a riddiculous concept] and constantly dump on new music are only doing it to appear knowledgeable or zany. Is it not at all possible that one can simply find the vast majority of new music to be disposable garbage? How on earth is that a 'narrow view'? It's completely different to someone like MM&I saying old music is crap because that's not an informed opinion. MM&I doesn't listen to old music. Has never even tried. We are all exposed to new music.

I listen to albums too. I just don't post reviews in public domains. I don't listen to albums by artists I know I won't enjoy because it would be a waste of time and it would not change my opinion. As I said singles based artists can be judged on the basis of their singles. An album from Leona Lewis or Justin Bieber is nothing more than a holding pen for potential singles. Do you think it is necessary to watch every single episode of Skins before one can say with any amount of certainty that Skins isin't really for them?

I could go and listen to a Sugababes album and if I do it enough through the magic of repetition a certain song might stick out and drill itself into my mind ... it happens to everyone at supermarkets when they fill their trolleys to some humdrum ambient melodies ... but I don't really have to do it in order to say I'm not into the Sugababes.

And seriously ... I'm just looking for good music. It doesn't have to be 'expressing controversial views' or 'challenging' me lol.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Stu

I'm tired of this notion that people who are fans of 'old' music [what a riddiculous concept] and constantly dump on new music are only doing it to appear knowledgeable or zany. Is it not at all possible that one can simply find the vast majority of new music to be disposable garbage? How on earth is that a 'narrow view'? It's completely different to someone like MM&I saying old music is crap because that's not an informed opinion. MM&I doesn't listen to old music. Has never even tried. We are all exposed to new music.

I listen to albums too. I just don't post reviews in public domains. I don't listen to albums by artists I know I won't enjoy because it would be a waste of time and it would not change my opinion. As I said singles based artists can be judged on the basis of their singles. An album from Leona Lewis or Justin Bieber is nothing more than a holding pen for potential singles. Do you think it is necessary to watch every single episode of Skins before one can say with any amount of certainty that Skins isin't really for them?

I could go and listen to a Sugababes album and if I do it enough through the magic of repetition a certain song might stick out and drill itself into my mind ... it happens to everyone at supermarkets when they fill their trolleys to some humdrum ambient melodies ... but I don't really have to do it in order to say I'm not into the Sugababes.

And seriously ... I'm just looking for good music. It doesn't have to be 'expressing controversial views' or 'challenging' me lol.

I said all, not vast majority, I was speaking about those who literally do do what you described. Those who do that about ALL modern music hold just as narrow a view as those like MM&I who don't give older stuff a chance, because it's the exact same opinion, just on opposing sides. That's why anyone listens to albums - because they enjoy them - but to have a properly balanced opinion, then by any standard you'd need to know what you're talking about, right? I'm not claiming I do it either, I'm just saying that a person with an informed opinion is someone who has done their research - just like any other debate. How do you know you won't enjoy something until you give it a try? Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here - it's not as if I do this myself, but I mean with the Skins or the Sugababes examples you gave, who's to say there won't be a flash in the pan that takes you by surprise and you take enjoyment out of it? You don't know until you try - but you can certainly make your mind up based on a sample of material, as I reckon everyone does - why would you force yourself to listen/watch something that has failed to appeal to you previously - it just isn't an entirely informed opinion.

Anyway, I'm going to step out of this debate now, I'm verging on clueless when it comes to music, I'm just trying to make the point that while people are ****ting on MM&I for his point, I get what he's trying to say - people who say all modern music is crap can't say that unless they've given all modern music a try, which although would be pretty much impossible, if someone who had that opinion gave modern music a chance, they'd surely come across something that they don't think is crap.