[Livia]

The vast majority of the most talented, educated, successful and creative people I know smoke marijuana in one form or another. They - and occasionally I – smoke it the way they – and I – drink alcohol, that is, without kicking the arse out of it. Some people I know have been doing it for years and years and years and have not yet turned into Charles Manson. I have never known anyone to smoke a joint then pick a fight. What tires me most are those people who ensconce themselves on the moral high ground and preach that it will lead to "stronger stuff". Not necessarily it won't. And if it does, chances are you were heading for the harder stuff anyway.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Not really, given that the original argument was that cannabis alters your state of consciousness and alcohol does not. I've never said one single word about which is more harmful. Please go back and read my original post. Is this what happens in here all the time? People come in and want to make a point but feel they have to argue with someone to do so? Why not just make the point. It's got nothing to do with what I was saying.

you win this round, Mr. Bond.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Livia

The vast majority of the most talented, educated, successful and creative people I know smoke marijuana in one form or another. They - and occasionally I – smoke it the way they – and I – drink alcohol, that is, without kicking the arse out of it. Some people I know have been doing it for years and years and years and have not yet turned into Charles Manson. I have never known anyone to smoke a joint then pick a fight. What tires me most are those people who ensconce themselves on the moral high ground and preach that it will lead to "stronger stuff". Not necessarily it won't. And if it does, chances are you were heading for the harder stuff anyway.

One question, Livia, do you think those who buy an illegal drug are in any way complicit in the violence associated with the industry they are funding? If people grow their own, fine. The best of luck to them. But if they're buying it from dealers, they're putting money in the pockets of thugs who don't, generally, confine themselves to marijuana. I don't remember anyone on this thread saying that people turn into Charles Manson but there's considerable evidence linking prolonged and excessive cannabis use to psychoses. There's a very interesting report HERE and several more on the British Medical Journal's website. Personally speaking, it's not about the high moral ground; it's about the risks and a reasoned debate on exactly what legalisation would achieve.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by lostalex

you win this round, Mr. Bond.

It's Ms and thanks

[Livia]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

One question, Livia, do you think those who buy an illegal drug are in any way complicit in the violence associated with the industry they are funding? If people grow their own, fine. The best of luck to them. But if they're buying it from dealers, they're putting money in the pockets of thugs who don't, generally, confine themselves to marijuana. I don't remember anyone on this thread saying that people turn into Charles Manson but there's considerable evidence linking prolonged and excessive cannabis use to psychoses. There's a very interesting report HERE and several more on the British Medical Journal's website. Personally speaking, it's not about the high moral ground; it's about the risks and a reasoned debate on exactly what legalisation would achieve.

I don’t think people who buy the end product are necessarily responsible, no. Personally I think it should be legalised, which would take the problem off the streets and the quality of the stuff we buy would be more controlled, but that’s another topic entirely. Neither I, nor the people that I know buy stuff from street corners. Of course that doesn’t mean that I know for sure that someone hasn’t been persecuted or abused along the way. But then, if you’re wearing a pair of Nike trainers, or have ever worn anything from any of the clothing stores that support Third World sweatshops, I could say the same about you.

There’s a massive picture of Charles Manson posted on page 3. That’s the reason I mentioned him.

Any kind of psychosis is relative. If you are psychotic from smoking dope, chances are that without it, you would be psychotic from prolonged use of alcohol or prescription drugs. If you have an addictive personality you will become an addict.

You’ve posted links to a couple of reports, one from the British Medical Journal, so I guess you’re assuming I’ve never read any of this stuff previously. I have, of course… and I’ve read the opposing view too.

More people are hospitalised with serious illnesses related to obesity than are admitted with problems centred around smoking cannabis. I get more upset about that, to be honest.

[Ramsay]

Originally Posted by Livia

There’s a massive picture of Charles Manson posted on page 3. That’s the reason I mentioned him.

no no i said i smoked up and listened to charles manson which made me wanna kill my family as a joke and someone was like O_o so i just posted a picture of him

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don’t think people who buy the end product are necessarily responsible, no. Personally I think it should be legalised, which would take the problem off the streets and the quality of the stuff we buy would be more controlled, but that’s another topic entirely. Neither I, nor the people that I know buy stuff from street corners. Of course that doesn’t mean that I know for sure that someone hasn’t been persecuted or abused along the way. But then, if you’re wearing a pair of Nike trainers, or have ever worn anything from any of the clothing stores that support Third World sweatshops, I could say the same about you.

There’s a massive picture of Charles Manson posted on page 3. That’s the reason I mentioned him.

Any kind of psychosis is relative. If you are psychotic from smoking dope, chances are that without it, you would be psychotic from prolonged use of alcohol or prescription drugs. If you have an addictive personality you will become an addict.

You’ve posted links to a couple of reports, one from the British Medical Journal, so I guess you’re assuming I’ve never read any of this stuff previously. I have, of course… and I’ve read the opposing view too.

More people are hospitalised with serious illnesses related to obesity than are admitted with problems centred around smoking cannabis. I get more upset about that, to be honest.

BIB1 I strongly disagree - no market = no industry.
BIB2 Absolutely correct. We should all be much more conscious of where and how what we consume is produced. But this thread is about cannabis....
BIB3 I didn't assume anything. I don't know you. But I think there are very many very credible studies linking cannabis use to increased risk of psychoses.
BIB4 I'm very concerned about this too and think there's way too much focus on the very thin when there are FAR more who are very fat. It's just not PC to say that. Again, though, as with point 2, this thread is about cannabis....

[Stu]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Well perhaps you'd be better elaborating rather than simply posting . It's a bit lazy, isn't it? I've been extremely pissed in my life but I never thought the four walls were going to envelope me under the influence of alcohol. I did under the influence of cannabis. Now do you have a counterargument or are you just going to hit me with a , oh worthy foe?

Alcohol is as mind altering as Cannabis, merely in a different way. Picking fights with your closest friends, thinking you really should give an acting career a run and honest to god thinking you have superhuman strength and intelligence have all occured to me after too much booze. But I guess that's not 'mind altering'? I tried to pick a fight with my dad and could have swore I hated my mum countless times after boozing. Countless times. I love them both of course. Sounds like mind altering to me.

Anyone who thinks the walls are closing in after smoking Cannabis has no business smoking it and should stop straight away. Like I did with Alcohol after I realized that it turns me into an obnoxious, nasty jackass.

The relationship between Cannabis and psychosis is largely based on bringing out underlying, pre existing psychotic symptoms. There is a difference between causation and acceleration. That and the fact that THC enriched, unbalanced Cannabis plants make for a mind racing experience. This super skunk that forms the backbone of the British Cannabis industry is a direct result of prohibition. Eager criminals set up blitzkreig style grow operations in houses caring only for the fastest grow and the strongest plant, neglecting Cannabis's other essential compount.

CBD. Cannabidiol. Give it a look up. It's a promising antipsychotic drug that gives Cannabis it's calming, sedative effects.

Also RE : the chain of supply thing : Do you know where every thread of clothing in your wardrobe comes from? Where the coco in your chocolate comes from? Where your fuel comes from? Can you be sure they are all from conflict free, exploitation free sources?

Just wondering.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Stu

Alcohol is as mind altering as Cannabis, merely in a different way. Picking fights with your closest friends, thinking you really should give an acting career a run and honest to god thinking you have superhuman strength and intelligence have all occured to me after too much booze. But I guess that's not 'mind altering'? I tried to pick a fight with my dad and could have swore I hated my mum countless times after boozing. Countless times. I love them both of course. Sounds like mind altering to me.

Anyone who thinks the walls are closing in after smoking Cannabis has no business smoking it and should stop straight away. Like I did with Alcohol after I realized that it turns me into an obnoxious, nasty jackass.

The relationship between Cannabis and psychosis is largely based on bringing out underlying, pre existing psychotic symptoms. There is a difference between causation and acceleration. That and the fact that THC enriched, unbalanced Cannabis plants make for a mind racing experience. This super skunk that forms the backbone of the British Cannabis industry is a direct result of prohibition. Eager criminals set up blitzkreig style grow operations in houses caring only for the fastest grow and the strongest plant, neglecting Cannabis's other essential compount.

CBD. Cannabidiol. Give it a look up. It's a promising antipsychotic drug that gives Cannabis it's calming, sedative effects.

Also RE : the chain of supply thing : Do you know where every thread of clothing in your wardrobe comes from? Where the coco in your chocolate comes from? Where your fuel comes from? Can you be sure they are all from conflict free, exploitation free sources?Just wondering.

The point is that the underlying symptoms may never be overt without the kick in the arse that cannabis can be. It's a question of whether or not you think it's worth the risk.
And no, I don't, though I do tend to buy free trade when it's available. However, while I can't be sure my clothes are ethically produced, I KNOW cannabis - other than whatever I choose to produce in my own back garden - is not.

[InOne]

Moderation.

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It does very little harm in comparison to alcohol and tobacco, I say legalise it. I would be in favour of legalising all drugs really, regardless of how harmful they are, lets allow people to start making the decisions for themselves on things like this and stop having the government make it for them.

You have just made a compelling argument as to why drugs should not be legalised.......You state Alcohol and tobacco do more harm. Why do you think that is...Blindingly obvious.......They are legal so more take such substances hence more harm.......A case why no more drugs should be legalised. If they were then you would see the same amount of harm as does alcohol and tobacco........


The drugs culture be it alcohol or others is a sad culture........People who are failing personality wise to enjoy life without the assistance of chemicals.......A dependancy on a fake drug induced personality..Unreal people while under the influence like alcoholics .........

What a sad sad 21st century of plastic people created by modern chemistry and a lack of ability to live life naturally..........

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by bananarama

You have just made a compelling argument as to why drugs should not be legalised.......You state Alcohol and tobacco do more harm. Why do you think that is...Blindingly obvious.......They are legal so more take such substances hence more harm.......A case why no more drugs should be legalised. If they were then you would see the same amount of harm as does alcohol and tobacco........


The drugs culture be it alcohol or others is a sad culture........People who are failing personality wise to enjoy life without the assistance of chemicals.......A dependancy on a fake drug induced personality..Unreal people while under the influence like alcoholics .........

What a sad sad 21st century of plastic people created by modern chemistry and a lack of ability to live life naturally..........

if you think the 21st century is bad, you should try the 19th or 18th over and farther back.

Do you honestly think that we live in worse times than centuries past?

I assure you....We don't.

[Chuck]

I've never done canabis, wondering where I can get it.

[Zippy]

I suspect like most things it depends how much you use it and what you use it for. I just don't know enough about cannabis to give any great opinion.

But I would think that those who are willing to use it would be naturally more inclined to try other, maybe harder, drugs. Plus if you're around others who use it and buying it from dealers then you're gonna be offered harder drugs at some point. I can imagine younger people especially being pressured into stepping up to the harder stuff if theyre already using cannabis. So it can be a gateway drug.

[Stu]

The mind is a gateway drug. I get what you are saying but what you are describing has more to do with social and cultural nuances than Cannabis itself.

I'm betting most of anyone who ever smoked dope started off smoking a normal fag and wondering what the difference was. Or how it compared to that first time they got knackered off booze.

I know I did. I drank before I smoked and always wondered what the difference was. I couldn't even imagine what an altered state would feel like before I drank. After I drank I wondered what the other stuff did.

That and the fact that our schools wonderful homework journals carried a full colour, rather comprehensive discionary of drugs, what they looked like, and what their effects were. Wasn't long before that ended up as roach paper.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by chuck.pass

I've never done canabis, wondering where I can get it.

[Boothy]

Youtube video