[Zippy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

well it doesn't matter "how you see it" we're talking about facts and medical science.

well it doesn't matter "how you see it" either, biatch.

And as for you talking facts and medical science....hahahaha...my sides, my sides!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

The word 'problem' being the key. Not an illness...but a problem, that they need to admit, and they need to accept before they are able to progress in tackling their problem.

The epitomy of the difference between anorexia and many of those who are obsese.

Again, I agree with you Pyramid. The thing is too, whether it be drinking,drugs or eating disorder problems,by the time the problem is admitted,massive damage to health is already done.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Again, I agree with you Pyramid. The thing is too, whether it be drinking,drugs or eating disorder problems,by the time the problem is admitted,massive damage to health is already done.

Agreed once again...... are we sharing the same brain. If so,can I please have 'my half' back again for Monday morning - need it for serious heavy duty work stuff!!


Wise cracks aside: -

The last part you mentioned: when the persons problem results in damage to their health - that I think is part of the 'misconception' in the tag of 'illness'. It's the problem that caused the illness: not the illness that caused the problem.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Agreed once again...... are we sharing the same brain. If so,can I please have 'my half' back again for Monday morning - need it for serious heavy duty work stuff!!


Wise cracks aside: -

The last part you mentioned: when the persons problem results in damage to their health - that I think is part of the 'misconception' in the tag of 'illness'. It's the problem that caused the illness: not the illness that caused the problem.

On this issue and on several other we do seem to have the same brain all powers that be help you on that.

At the risk of seeming really more tedious I have to agree again because once a health issue is treated as an illness, from an addiction, the diagnosis is (in the case of alcohol or drugs for instance) alcohol related liver disease or drugs related etc.
It would be recognised officially as being an addiction induced illness,one that normally may not have occurred.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

On this issue and on several other we do seem to have the same brain all powers that be help you on that.

At the risk of seeming really more tedious I have to agree again because once a health issue is treated as an illness, from an addiction, the diagnosis is (in the case of alcohol or drugs for instance) alcohol related liver disease or drugs related etc.
It would be recognised officially as being an addiction induced illness,one that normally may not have occurred.

Okay.. Now that we have solved the world's problems and sorted out the forum's differnces between addictions, physical illnessess and psychological orders.... what next !!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm not buying this....... an obese person can still see themselves as thin?

No more odd than an anorexic viewing themselves as fat

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

No more odd than an anorexic viewing themselves as fat

I disagree. The physicalities alone, not being able to walk up stairs without getting breathless, having to go out and purchase bigger sized - oversize clothing showing sizes like 22/24/26, not being able to do basic every day tasks due to their weight restricting them, not being able to fit into airplane seats, having to be assisted in washing, getting dressed etc in the more extreme cases... I'd personally think there were far more signs that the person was obese than just looking in a mirror and seeing a distored visoin to realising that they are fat/obese.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I disagree. The physicalities alone, not being able to walk up stairs without getting breathless, having to go out and purchase bigger sized - oversize clothing showing sizes like 22/24/26, not being able to do basic every day tasks due to their weight restricting them, not being able to fit into airplane seats, having to be assisted in washing, getting dressed etc in the more extreme cases... I'd personally think there were far more signs that the person was obese than just looking in a mirror and seeing a distored visoin to realising that they are fat/obese.

Maybe thin is the wrong word. I would think most dont know quite how big they look.

I have never been obese, but a few years back I put on quite a lot of weight. And I didnt even know about it, I still looked the same to myself in the mirror, until I saw a photo. So I would think thats not too uncommon :/


Plus, with what you say about physical problems too...that could also apply to anorexics. Surely they notice that the feel faint all the time, have no energy, have to buy childrens clothes if they want them to fit properly etc

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Maybe thin is the wrong word. I would think most dont know quite how big they look.

I have never been obese, but a few years back I put on quite a lot of weight. And I didnt even know about it, I still looked the same to myself in the mirror, until I saw a photo. So I would think thats not too uncommon :/

Perhaps, but I really honestly can't take on board seriously that when a person puts on weight, has to go out and start buying bigger sizes - that they don't realise they are putting on weight or didn't even know it. they might not realise quite how big they are - but they certainly know they are getting bigger.

it's not until the lose the weight that they are able to see HOW fat / how overweight they had become: but as I say: they (not getting at you, I mean generally) - there is no gettng away from the fact that having to buy clothes in bigger sizes - tell the person that they are getting fatter.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I have never been obese, but a few years back I put on quite a lot of weight. And I didnt even know about it, I still looked the same to myself in the mirror, until I saw a photo. So I would think thats not too uncommon :/

I don't think a lot of fat people realise how big they are until they see a picture or video of themselves. Looking in the mirror day to day you don't register the very gradual growth in weight. But you only look at a picture every once in a while so the growth is far more apparent.

Im always grateful Im not prone to piling on weight because I have a very sweet tooth.

[InOne]

It's such a sad thing, I've wanted to shake people and tell them they're not fat and look good. But sadly it doesn't work. A lot of people take a "pull your socks up" attitude which is not good. Think it still has massive stigma which hope can go away some day to a degree

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I don't think a lot of fat people realise how big they are until they see a picture or video of themselves. Looking in the mirror day to day you don't register the very gradual growth in weight. But you only look at a picture every once in a while so the growth is far more apparent.

Im always grateful Im not prone to piling on weight because I have a very sweet tooth.

I still say it's a cop out. If having to buy bigger clothing, seeing your clothes size go up and having to buy larger sizes isn't an obvious clue .... then I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by InOne

It's such a sad thing, I've wanted to shake people and tell them they're not fat and look good. But sadly it doesn't work. A lot of people take a "pull your socks up" attitude which is not good. Think it still has massive stigma which hope can go away some day to a degree

That's the heartbreaker as far as anorexia is concerned. It more than 'give yourself a shake' ... it is so far mroe deeply rooted than that and it's an incredibly difficult illness to recover from (and maintain recovery from).

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I don't see anorexia as an addiction.

If you're talking about obesity then you do not have to avoid food; you make better choices and eat better portions. Its not all or nothig. And there's no shortage of healthy eating advice out there.

Bib to make it bit clearer my fault ,people who are obese most of them have a addiction to overeating .some might have bad parents who supposedly should give theyre children the advice on over eating but they dont so therefore bad habits evolve.In most cases you can see the child the same shape as parents therefore they are alike in eating habits.
Tbh I have terrible eating habits my self skipping meals and eating crap, but I do exercise and always give my children breakfast and dinner so they have a better routine so they wont have my bad habits.

Anorexia I would say is a control matter for some like they cannot control the
bad things that happen in life but they can control they're eating. Just my opnion.
So there fore the sufferer has control on their life the eating habits.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by tmi

Bib to make it bit clearer my fault ,people who are obese most of them have a addiction to overeating .some might have bad parents who supposedly should give theyre children the advice on over eating but they dont so therefore bad habits evolve.In most cases you can see the child the same shape as parents therefore they are alike in eating habits.
Tbh I have terrible eating habits my self skipping meals and eating crap, but I do exercise and always give my children breakfast and dinner so they have a better routine so they wont have my bad habits.

Anorexia I would say is a control matter for some like they cannot control the
bad things that happen in life but they can control they're eating. Just my opnion.
So there fore the sufferer has control on their life the eating habits.

It's not really about food at all, with anorexia. One piece of advice I'd offer, for what it's worth, is to parents; never make an issue out of food with young children. Me and me old mum used to battle about it daily. From quite a young age food made me ill; the sight of it, the smell of it, the texture. I wanted nourishment in a pill or injection form. I hated 'eating'. We had running battles where I'd be left at the table until I ate and, when I invariably didn't, there'd be tears, recriminations and punishment. I'm nearly 5'8" and when I was 23 I weighed about six and a half stone. I could go for days without eating and would have just crackers or soup if I had to eat something to stay standing up. It had NOTHING to do with wanting to be thin. In fact, I used to get really irritated when people told me how thin I was. It's very much psychological. What happened with me was I settled into a profession and settled into a relationship and found some kind of contentment that took away my aversion to food and eating. It's been a while now and I've never gone back to being underweight - could stand to lose a half stone or so, but that's fine. I'm healthy. Obesity is entirely unrelated, IMO.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by cub

That's not what I'm saying. I said we shouldn't slap a label of 'mental illness' on people who are obese, or suggest that people that turn to food as a comfort is the other side of the coin - and therefore the same - as anorexia.

Weight gain is often based on being unhappy and the use of food as a happiness-booster. Anorexia, as I understand it, is more of a control issue.

Obesity is food-led. Anorexia is body shape-led.

Most overweight people feel unhappy when they look in the mirror. Anorexics want to be thin. Obese people do not want to be fat.

Not all Anorexics are mentally ill either,just look at some of the tv stars that only go Anorexic because the writers of these shows basically tell them they have to lose weight to get more roles.

I agree with Livia that Overweight people and Anorexics should be getting the same sympathy and should be treated as seriously.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Not all Anorexics are mentally ill either,just look at some of the tv stars that only go Anorexic because the writers of these shows basically tell them they have to lose weight to get more roles.

I agree with Livia that Overweight people and Anorexics should be getting the same sympathy and should be treated as seriously.

It's not that they 'go anorexic'; they lose a lot of weight. Stupidly. I don't think you can compare this malarkey of starving yourself for a role with what is a serious medical condition. It's no less alarming, but it's a different phenomenon.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Not all Anorexics are mentally ill either,just look at some of the tv stars that only go Anorexic because the writers of these shows basically tell them they have to lose weight to get more roles.

I agree with Livia that Overweight people and Anorexics should be getting the same sympathy and should be treated as seriously.

I think you raise a point there jf,in that when not celebrities generally most(not all) people are likely happy with how they are and look, once in the public eye,often reviews and promoters etc comments can cause someone to look at themselves.

I recall reading and watching the story of Karen Carpenter (The Carpenters duo) who it seemed was fine until stardom came, I forget the wording but after a live show a reviewer praised the duo but described Karen as Richards plump ( or some other word) Sister.
After reading that she became obsessed with her weight and getting it off, so much so that naturally her health suffered greatly. It is believed the reason she died so young too was from effects and complications of her anorexia.

So you make a valid point, in that once in the spotlight,what others say carelessly can end up with someone adopting a very unhealthy lifestyle and develop life threatening eating disorders.

I know very little about this person as fact but read a bit about her and also after being called 'tubby' a singer who was a child star, Lena Zavaroni, also went down the drastically losing weight anorexic path and also I believe died very young.

[CharlieO]

cetainy not ano
just had maccas and 6 choco croissants lo.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think you raise a point there jf,in that when not celebrities generally most(not all) people are likely happy with how they are and look, once in the public eye,often reviews and promoters etc comments can cause someone to look at themselves.

I recall reading and watching the story of Karen Carpenter (The Carpenters duo) who it seemed was fine until stardom came, I forget the wording but after a live show a reviewer praised the duo but described Karen as Richards plump ( or some other word) Sister.
After reading that she became obsessed with her weight and getting it off, so much so that naturally her health suffered greatly. It is believed the reason she died so young too was from effects and complications of her anorexia.

So you make a valid point, in that once in the spotlight,what others say carelessly can end up with someone adopting a very unhealthy lifestyle and develop life threatening eating disorders.

I know very little about this person as fact but read a bit about her and also after being called 'tubby' a singer who was a child star, Lena Zavaroni, also went down the drastically losing weight anorexic path and also I believe died very young.

That level of scrutiny can probably trigger a predisposition, but the predisposition would have to be there in the first place. I think gaining/losing ridiculous amounts of weight for a role is different, though; that's just vanity and stupidity.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

That level of scrutiny can probably trigger a predisposition, but the predisposition would have to be there in the first place. I think gaining/losing ridiculous amounts of weight for a role is different, though; that's just vanity and stupidity.

That is true,it still happens though.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is true,it still happens though.

Sadly, yes. The Bridget Jones thing always made me a bit sad. Here was this woman heralded as a champion of the 'normal' but still incredibly sexy women who, we all knew as we were watching the movie, went to shocking lengths to return to resembling a blonde lollipop in the weeks after shooting finished. Quite disturbing, really. OK, she could have done with being a little lighter than she was in Bridget Jones, but Renee Zellwegger appears to believe that 'emaciated' is the better look. Depressing stuff.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Claymores

I can see why you are a Tory assistant playing with misquotes or half quotes - good luck with you on that Livs

I am not a "Tory assistant", I am a political agent.

[hannah.]

not all people who suffer from eating disorders are disgustingly skinny. I've never been fully diagnosed because my periods didn't stop and I stayed at a certain BMI.
But anyway, its not something that you can just 'recover from'. It still haunts me and it always will. When you've got so used to thinking in a certain way it's impossible to rewire your brain. I can't eat in front of people unless I really trust them

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by hannah.

not all people who suffer from eating disorders are disgustingly skinny.

That's right. The vast majority of people with eating disorders are average or over weight. In the eating disorder community, it is only a small minority of people that are actually dangerously under weight.