[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I'm a bit confused about this then, if you think you can never be confident a sex offender could look after a child then wouldn't you support a blanket ban?

No. As 08marsh stated, people are on the sex offenders register for different reasons. I am not talking about the bloke who slept with the 15 year old believing she was 18. I keep re-iterating, in serious cases only. We can all have our different views on what those are.

Originally Posted by MTVN

But is what we're talking about not the attempt to legislate against the possibility of harming your child? I'm not just talking about physical abuse either

The whole debate was sparked off by somebody actually abusing their child. Should we not learn from such actions and stop them from happening again? You could never guarantee a child would not be abused by anyone, but you could definitely try and lower the risk.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by Scott

i will never, ever understand how people can think this

Murders are reported about every day. We read about them in the news and are a part of every day life. It doesn't make them any less serious, but ask yourself this. What outrages you more? When you read about someone being murdered, or when hearing about a horrible abuse case?

[Kizzy]

I agree with vicky, anyone convicted of serious assault on a minor should be sterilised.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

Murders are reported about every day. We read about them in the news and are a part of every day life. It doesn't make them any less serious, but ask yourself this. What outrages you more? When you read about someone being murdered, or when hearing about a horrible abuse case?

well the murder case would probably upset me more

abuse victims can get over what happened to them dead people cant

i just think to take somebodies life away from them is in a different league to everything else and there is nothing worse

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Scott

well the murder case would probably upset me more

abuse victims can get over what happened to them dead people cant

i just think to take somebodies life away from them is in a different league to everything else and there is nothing worse

Quite the opposite. Serious abuse stays with you for life.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by Scott

well the murder case would probably upset me more

abuse victims can get over what happened to them dead people cant

i just think to take somebodies life away from them is in a different league to everything else and there is nothing worse

Fair enough. I don't think most people would retort in the same way though.

I'm not getting into the rest of your post though. That's would take the thread on a different tangent, and it's not a view I necessarily agree with, but we all have our different opinions, and it's good to discuss them sometimes.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

Murders are reported about every day. We read about them in the news and are a part of every day life. It doesn't make them any less serious, but ask yourself this. What outrages you more? When you read about someone being murdered, or when hearing about a horrible abuse case?

I would say they both appal me in equal measure, especially when there is more than one person present. One deviant is hard to comprehend, but when they are mulitplied its frightening.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I go with Vicky on this one, this woman shouldn't be anywhere near children, some people crave having children and cannot but they would give total devotion and love to them if they had any.
This woman will I am sure in prison once it is known what she is in for,get some really rough treatment,it's sad to think there are better morals from some of the worst criminals behind bars than there are from some parents and adults with responsibility towards babies and children.

I agree with Vicky, it's a pity the law doesn't cater for making sure she doesn't have any more of her own. Totally disgusting behaviour and wholly unacceptable treatment of that baby in this incident.

Agree with you yet again Joey,that video upset me, that woman clearly is a liability around children and the children should be protected from that sort of scum.

[Jack_]

Wow, you lot are certainly creating some threads that are more than likely going to rile me up (this and that smacking thread).

Anyway...no I don't agree with forced sterilisation of women. It's inhumane and not the kind of way we should be going about things. Human rights are a fundamental element of a civilised society, and they should never, ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, be compromised for any reason (I am of course referring to the serious ones). They should be set in stone and nobody should be above them, and we should count ourselves very lucky that we have them and that we live in a society where on the whole, people's human rights are abided by in the eyes of the law and justice.

If we lived in a society where we could freely tamper with human rights and compromise with certain cases willy nilly, we'd be leaving ourselves open to all kinds of abuse. Sounds just like a fascist government policy to me, not the kind of place I want to be living. As disgusting as this video was (from the parts I watched), and as infuriated as I get at certain crimes, at the very basic level we should always ensure that the human rights of all involved are upheld.

Capital punishment, torture etc are all disgusting concepts that need to be abolished as soon as possible, and we really don't need to start going down this kind of road. We want to try and aim to get to a stage where there is practically no violence or inhumane treatment whatsoever (especially coming from those in control of the law), and things like this would only promote such behaviour if you ask me. Almost hypocritical in fact.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Wow, you lot are certainly creating some threads that are more than likely going to rile me up (this and that smacking thread).

Anyway...no I don't agree with forced sterilisation of women. It's inhumane and not the kind of way we should be going about things. Human rights are a fundamental element of a civilised society, and they should never, ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, be compromised for any reason (I am of course referring to the serious ones). They should be set in stone and nobody should be above them, and we should count ourselves very lucky that we have them and that we live in a society where on the whole, people's human rights are abided by in the eyes of the law and justice.

If we lived in a society where we could freely tamper with human rights and compromise with certain cases willy nilly, we'd be leaving ourselves open to all kinds of abuse. Sounds just like a fascist government policy to me, not the kind of place I want to be living. As disgusting as this video was (from the parts I watched), and as infuriated as I get at certain crimes, at the very basic level we should always ensure that the human rights of all involved are upheld.

Capital punishment, torture etc are all disgusting concepts that need to be abolished as soon as possible, and we really don't need to start going down this kind of road. We want to try and aim to get to a stage where there is practically no violence or inhumane treatment whatsoever (especially coming from those in control of the law), and things like this would only promote such behaviour if you ask me. Almost hypocritical in fact.

Including those of any future children of convicted abusers?...

[Jords]

I disagree with forced sterilisation because like others have mentioned its open to abuse and similarly to capital punishment what if they have a false positive? Its irreversible and somebodys life could potentially be ruined.

These sort of people that some would deem "deservable" of it should be locked up for a very long time that they wont have chance to get pregnant anyway.

[Jords]

Also what in the cases of these offenders that are already pregnant? Would that deem them deservable of a forced abortion?

Its just not something I think should be explored because all sorts of ethical issues are flung about.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jords

Also what in the cases of these offenders that are already pregnant? Would that deem them deservable of a forced abortion?

Its just not something I think should be explored because all sorts of ethical issues are flung about.

I don't think they're suggesting any child from them should be killed but they should be prevented from conceiving full stop.

[lostalex]

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

wow

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jords

wow

elaborate.

[Mrluvaluva]

Oh my. I'm just not getting into that one..

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

So, hang on, they can violate someone else's rights. But to violate their own as punishment is too far? I find that logic quite disturbing.

I was thinking this.

I can understand Niall and MTVN's views but if they don't want there human rights taken away when concieving children then they shouldn't have abused the children they've already got imo.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

Are you ****ing serious?

Sounds like some fascist dictatorship which is attempting to engineer some sort of 'super race'. Having flashbacks to the 1940's here.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Niall

Because if you start sterilising people like that, then its just the start of slippery slope. Infringing human rights like that should never be considered.

Keep her in prison for life maybe, but to sterilise someone? That's something the Nazis did!

Yes but the Nazi's were at War with the World.

Criminals
can have some human rights stopped
thats fair

[arista]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

That will never Happen, though

[arista]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I agree with vicky, anyone convicted of serious assault on a minor should be sterilised.

I also agree with Vicky.
on that.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I agree with vicky, anyone convicted of serious assault on a minor should be sterilised.

You do realise what you're saying right?

What if a case was misjudged and a person was sterilised because it appeared that they were guilty of an assault on a minor, but it wasn't actually true? A whole bodily function and ability to carry on their family would've been snatched away. They'd never be able to have a child of their own and thats all through a failing of the legal system. How would you help them? How could you even begin to consider how to compensate them for such a thing? Its just wrong to my mind..

Its an absolutely terrible thing to consider in my opinion and the fact that it was openly used by the Nazis against the disabled for example on serves to highlight that.

[Vicky.]

I dont think its fair to say everyone 'convicted' of anything. Some paedophiles get convicted on only the words of the victims.

Thats why I said earlier on only if it can be actually proven beyond all reasonable doubt...and that it would be very much on a case by case basis.