[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

Let me rephrase. You stated "People who use force instead of words, that is violence.", but by your own definition, words can be deemed as violence. Just struck me as a contradiction in terms.

Where did I say you have to use violence? I think we have different terms of the meaning anyhow.

sorry you misunderstood, i meant people that use violence instead of words as in, instead of logicaly explaining to their children why something is wrong or right, they just try to scare children in behaving.


imo, being a parent is being a teacher. a teacher doesn't beat children if they get a math problem wrong, they explain why the answer was wrong, and show them how to solve the problem correctly. You don't need to beat a child to help them learn math do you? no. and you don't need to beat a child to help them understand any other lessons.

proper communication is a very rare skill i think.

[Mrluvaluva]

I think we all have our differing opinions on the subject, but common ground will never be achieved, and it's one that will be debated until the ends of time, probably. Nobody has the answers, otherwise everyone would be perfect parents. As I said earlier, I do not believe that what necessarily works for one child, does so for another. We are all different. And I certainly would not be too judgmental of a parent giving a light tap to the hand of a disobedient child. I think we have differing meanings of the term of violence. If somebody had a solution to such questions, which worked for one and all, we would not even be having this conversation.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by lostalex

sorry you misunderstood, i meant people that use violence instead of words as in, instead of logicaly explaining to their children why something is wrong or right, they just try to scare children in behaving.


imo, being a parent is being a teacher. a teacher doesn't beat children if they get a math problem wrong, they explain why the answer was wrong, and show them how to solve the problem correctly. You don't need to beat a child to help them learn math do you? no. and you don't need to beat a child to help them understand any other lessons.

proper communication is a very rare skill i think.

No Teachers just hand out Sweets to the bullies and punish the good children with loads of homework.

[lostalex]

IMO opinion "bad kids" are the result of "bad parents" and more bad parenting skills won't fix "bad kids". you can't slap a child into being good. imho.

some kids might have behavior problems because they have an actual psychological disorder, but that's even MORE reason NOT to hit them, because they can't help it.

It's no different than slapping a kid in a wheel chair and telling him that he can walk if he puts his mind to it!! or beating a gay kid and telling him he can be str8 if he just believes in Jesus.

[Josiah.]

Originally Posted by Doogle

I personally see no issue with being hit if the child is really being a pain. You never hit them hard (unless you're actually abusive) and it's just a sting that lasts about a minute for them anyway. I was smacked from time to time when I showed off and I know full well I deserved to be. Too many parents aren't strict enough with their children and they're so against kids being hit, yet they end up scared of their own children when they become teenagers and never obey them.

My parents have done that before.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by lostalex

IMO opinion "bad kids" are the result of "bad parents" and more bad parenting skills won't fix "bad kids". you can't slap a child into being good. imho.

some kids might have behavior problems because they have an actual psychological disorder, but that's even MORE reason NOT to hit them, because they can't help it.

It's no different than slapping a kid in a wheel chair and telling him that he can walk if he puts his mind to it!! or beating a gay kid and telling him he can be str8 if he just believes in Jesus.

How very generalised!

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jords

How very generalised!

well i don't have the time to research every single child in the world, forgive me for generalizing.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by lostalex

well i don't have the time to research every single child in the world, forgive me for generalizing.

So you've basically just destroyed your own argument

[Jords]

There are loads of 'bad kids' with 'good parents' and there are loads of 'good kids' with 'bad parents' you have such a blinkered view.

And are you suggesting that any parent that smacked their children is a 'bad' parent to you? Because if thats the case the stance in your statement if even weaker................

[Mystic Mock]

Well Lostalex is saying that most parents are bad lol.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by The Mockinator

Well Lostalex is saying that most parents are bad lol.

well looking at the world as it is, i think it's a fair assessment. do you disagree?

[Jords]

Originally Posted by lostalex

well looking at the world as it is, i think it's a fair assessment. do you disagree?

Dont get confused with the effect of society and parenting skills.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by lostalex

well looking at the world as it is, i think it's a fair assessment. do you disagree?

There are some bad parents out there but I wouldn't say most, sometimes you can judge a book by it's cover sometimes and assume someones a bad parent when there not.

What I mean by that is the look of them looks like they are bad parents but there not really.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jords

tbh as a kid when my mum told me she was disappointed and that she didnt want to talk to me it hurt a lot more than a quick smack across the arse but you have to change methods so they dont lose effect. A smack has quick impact but several warnings and meanings of punishment (removing toys, silence) should be used first because discipline is all to do with teaching and learning morals and putting yourself in other's shoes etc. etc. and making you a decent human being in adult life.

..I agree..to be told you've 'disappointed'..or 'this made me sad/upset.....'
or 'it scared me when you did that because......' imo is what always worked with my children..of course that was when they were old enough to understand...I think even as adults we don't like to hear those things...
..the main thing though is always to explain properly why they have made you feel like that

[Pyramid*]

Smacking within reason (I mean smacking, not thrashing a child) should be allowed.

Doogle summed it up for me - I'll add to that and say that often, many such kid end up not to respect their parents - or indeed - anyone else.

Originally Posted by Doogle
I personally see no issue with being hit if the child is really being a pain. You never hit them hard (unless you're actually abusive) and it's just a sting that lasts about a minute for them anyway. I was smacked from time to time when I showed off and I know full well I deserved to be.

Too many parents aren't strict enough with their children and they're so against kids being hit, yet they end up scared of their own children when they become teenagers and never obey them.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

I think we all have our differing opinions on the subject, but common ground will never be achieved, and it's one that will be debated until the ends of time, probably. Nobody has the answers, otherwise everyone would be perfect parents. As I said earlier, I do not believe that what necessarily works for one child, does so for another. We are all different. And I certainly would not be too judgmental of a parent giving a light tap to the hand of a disobedient child. I think we have differing meanings of the term of violence. If somebody had a solution to such questions, which worked for one and all, we would not even be having this conversation.

The most sensible answer in all of the thread - one size doesn't fit all - you are so correct.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

The most sensible answer in all of the thread - one size doesn't fit all - you are so correct.

so only SOME kids should be beaten? yea, that's so sensible...

not all kids should be smacked around, just CERTAIN ones...

i'm gonna be sick.

These posts are being made in the year 2012... seriously.

[arista]

Originally Posted by lostalex

so only SOME kids should be beaten? yea, that's so sensible...

not all kids should be smacked around, just CERTAIN ones...

i'm gonna be sick.

These posts are being made in the year 2012... seriously.

Spiffing

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

so only SOME kids should be beaten? yea, that's so sensible...

not all kids should be smacked around, just CERTAIN ones...

i'm gonna be sick.

These posts are being made in the year 2012... seriously.

As long as you clean up after yourself - I really don't care what you think.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

As long as you clean up after yourself - I really don't care what you think.

what's the point of this forum then if you don't care what others think?
i thought the whole point of a forum was exchange of ideas. so you only care about spreading your own ideas, but you cannot hear anything else?

I believe you. but i think you would benefit more by trying to understand what i have said.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what's the point of this forum then if you don't care what others think?

To give an opinion. I don't have to CARE what your opinion is.

Now... try to keep on subject - and Mrluva did not refer to any child being beaten as you so dramatically put it.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

To give an opinion. I don't have to CARE what your opinion is.

Now... try to keep on subject - and Mrluva did not refer to any child being beaten as you so dramatically put it.

sorry, replace beating with hitting, use whatever word you choose for hitting or beating, semantics are not important to me. i think you understood what i said, use whatever terminology you like.

[arista]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what's the point of this forum then if you don't care what others think?
i thought the whole point of a forum was exchange of ideas. so you only care about spreading your own ideas, but you cannot hear anything else?

I believe you. but i think you would benefit more by trying to understand what i have said.

It is with members that are Not Rude to you.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

To give an opinion. I don't have to CARE what your opinion is.

Now... try to keep on subject - and Mrluva did not refer to any child being beaten as you so dramatically put it.

Bang On Right.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what's the point of this forum then if you don't care what others think?
i thought the whole point of a forum was exchange of ideas. so you only care about spreading your own ideas, but you cannot hear anything else?

I believe you. but i think you would benefit more by trying to understand what i have said.

Take your beef with me off the board lostalex. This is not the time or place - the topic is about smacking children as a form of discipline.

Thank you.