[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Ey up pyra! All he had to do was tell the truth... it's not hard most do it all the time.
That woild put an end to all the supposition, too late now though eh?

Ey up Kiz!

Thing is: you hit the nail on the head: it was supposition. He claims he was telling the truth by saying he did not call him a pleb, the copper says he did.

Very childish game of ''He said/she said" over something that has never been proven.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Are we just throwing any unrelated issue into the mix now?
Shall I start googling tory scandals and cover-ups?
The supergun affair....The sinking of the Belgrano?....

It's called offereing comparisons - and it's relevant given your overall consensus of the 'attitude' to the police in general - as per the post I quoted you on earlier.

I'm happy to have offered comparisions that have shown how inept the police can be that have been spotlighted in recent weeks.

What can you show to back up your claim that Mr Mitchell was inept at this job?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

It's called offereing comparisons - and it's relevant given your overall consensus of the 'attitude' to the police in general - as per the post I quoted you on earlier.

I'm happy to have offered comparisions that have shown how inept the police can be that have been spotlighted in recent weeks.

What can you show to back up your claim that Mr Mitchell was inept at this job?

This whole issue is an example of his ineptitude, the role of chief whip is to ensure standards are maintained. That MP's behave in a manner fitting of their status and conduct themselves in public with dignity. Making sure they don't compromise themselves by receiving negative press that brings both them and their party into disrepute...
Nevermind the 'yes but what about' I am discussing this issue on this thread as it is the topic offered by the OP.
If we start flying off on a tangent where will it end?....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

This whole issue is an example of his ineptitude, the role of chief whip is to ensure standards are maintained. That MP's behave in a manner fitting of their status and conduct themselves in public with dignity. Making sure they don't compromise themselves andrecieve negative press that brings themselves and their party into disrepute...
Nevermind the 'yes but what about' I am discussing this issue on this thread as it is the topic offered by the OP.
If we start flying off on a tangent where will it end?....

You brought into play the generalisation of the attitudes overall towards the police - I addressed what you brought into the discussion yourself.


What was an example of his ineptitude of his working role? That he was human, had a slight altercation with an equally feisty and equally vocal policeman? I'd regard that as him being human rather than some robot.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

You brought into play the generalisation of the attitudes overall towards the police - I addressed what you brought into the discussion yourself.


What was an example of his ineptitude of his working role? That he was human, had a slight altercation with an equally feisty and equally vocal policeman? I'd regard that as him being human rather than some robot.

I commented on how this impacts on public perception of the police, nothing else.
Equally feisty and vocal police officer? He was doing his job, following procedures.
If Mr Mitchell had allowed him to do this and kept a civil tongue in his head he would not be clearing out his desk would he?
What are you trying to say pyra... we are all human but some are more human than others?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I commented on how this impacts on public perception of the police, nothing else.
Equally feisty and vocal police officer? He was doing his job, following procedures.
If Mr Mitchell had allowed him to do this and kept a civil tongue in his head he would not be clearing out his desk would he?
What are you trying to say pyra... we are all human but some are more human than others?

Since when was it a police officer's duty to threaten a member of the public with "I'll have your job for this". They are there to protect - not threaten them on a personal level. Yes, that's an extreme version of 'threatening' but it was still a threat nontheless. Since when was that police procedures?

What are you trying to say pyra... we are all human but some are more human than others?

That's precisely what I am saying.

if you don't believe that: you only have to look at some of the unbelievable horrors and levels of abuse of all nature: that some 'humans' inflict on others.

Both of these persons hurtled some form of verbal abuse to each other: why is one commended for his action, when the other subject to even more abuse? One rule for one person working for the good of the public, being paid for out of the public coffers: and one rule for another person working for the good of the public, being paid for out of the public coffers.

[Kizzy]

Is there any evidence to support this alleged retort to Mr Mitchells rant?
It seems that the officer even in his shock and embarrassment following the outburst knew that this was not the way in which such a high level public servant should behave?

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20751703

A police constable with the diplomatic protection group has been arrested on suspicion of misconduct in a public office, Met Police say.

The officer was arrested late on Saturday and bailed on Sunday to return in January. He has been suspended.

The arrest was made by officers investigating how national newspapers came to publish police records of an incident at Downing Street.

It involved the then chief whip allegedly calling officers "plebs".

In September Andrew Mitchell apparently made the comments and swore when police asked him to use the pedestrian gate, rather than the main gate, to leave Downing Street.

Mr Mitchell apologised for not having shown enough respect to the police but maintained that he "did not use the words attributed to me". However, he quit the government over the affair a few weeks later.

On Monday, Mr Mitchell told the BBC: "I reiterate once again that the contents of the alleged police logbook are false."

The official police log of the confrontation between the chief whip and officers was published by the Daily Telegraph and the Sun.

On Sunday, the Met said the arrested officer was not on duty during the incident, and investigations have found no evidence to suggest those on duty on the day were involved in the unauthorised release of information.

The arrest will be formally referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission on Monday, the Met Police said.

So ..... it wasn't the official police log, the contents are false and the arrested officer had nothing to do with the incident .....

[arista]

Yes now its a real police stink
as that officer who said he was watching the MP Plebbing etc
was no place near that.

This is about Police Unions

[Nedusa]

Is this an attempt by the political elites to cause confusion and suspicion re the testimony of the Police officers so that Andrew Mitchell's testimony gains more credence. Is this trying to sow more doubt on the side of the police and in turn boost the credibility of the MP. It could be that at some point a cabinet reshuffle will allow Mr Mitchell to return to front bench politics with his name not entirely besmirched.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20766497

The Met police commissioner has warned against jumping to conclusions after a police officer was arrested on suspicion of leaking details of the Andrew Mitchell case to a newspaper.

"There is more to this than meets the eye," Bernard Hogan-Howe told the BBC.

Met Police Federation chairman John Tully has suggested the arrest may have been disproportionate.

But Mr Hogan-Howe said: "When people hear the full story they will support what we've done."

Mr Hogan-Howe said: "There's some difficulty in me talking about it, there's an on-going criminal investigation, and also it's now supervised by the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

"I also hope people will understand that there is more to this than meets the eye, and I'm afraid I'm constrained in explaining that, but when people hear the full story they will support what we've done.

"As usual in any investigation, you have to go where the evidence takes you, and we got some new information - we acted on it quickly."

Mr Tully had told the Daily Telegraph: "The thing which disappointed me is around the proportionality of whether it was necessary to arrest the individual. After all, he is a serving police officer.

"Clearly it needs to be resolved, because there are things that we shouldn't talk about as police officers, and this may be one of those cases."

There seem to be at least FOUR sides to this story .....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes now its a real police stink
as that officer who said he was watching the MP Plebbing etc
was no place near that.

This is about Police Unions

The police don't have a union...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

The police don't have a union...

They Do
but call it other names.


Did he say Pleb?
or is this Police Falsehood


Also now we have see the Footage
on Ch4News, there was no public watching it.


This Stinks

[joeysteele]

So an MP, no matter how liked or disliked he may have been, has had to lose the position he so far attained in his political career because of confusion as to the reporting of the incident and what now seems some very unconvincing account relating to it too.

It would seem the Police have a lot of answers to look for on this one,I guess now the best Mr Mitchell can hope for is an apology from them too.
To a lot of people this incident seems like a storm in a teacup,but at its heart is the issue of integrity and even on the Police side, there seems on the face of this new cctv footage,that a great deal of invention as to what really happened has taken place.
That is worrying.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Is this an attempt by the political elites to cause confusion and suspicion re the testimony of the Police officers so that Andrew Mitchell's testimony gains more credence. Is this trying to sow more doubt on the side of the police and in turn boost the credibility of the MP. It could be that at some point a cabinet reshuffle will allow Mr Mitchell to return to front bench politics with his name not entirely besmirched.

maybe it's just the police closing ranks and stitching someone up,they aren't ALL lily white.

[Omah]

http://www.channel4.com/news/andrew-...downing-street

Seems to back up Mitchell's story and damn certain police officers .....

But why has it taken so long to surface ......

[the truth]

the policeman lied and his account was false yet it was used as evidence against the mp. surely thats plain and simple corruption by every copper involved. if thats the case, heads should roll.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

They Do
but call it other names.


Did he say Pleb?
or is this Police Falsehood


Also now we have see the Footage
on Ch4News, there was no public watching it.


This Stinks

No arista they don't.
This changes nothing as to the original exchange between Mitchell and the officers at the scene.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20795489

A 23-year-old man has been arrested in connection with the Andrew Mitchell "plebgate" investigation, Scotland Yard has said.

The man, who is not a member of police staff, has been released on bail.

The man was arrested at around 2000 GMT on Wednesday "on suspicion of intentionally encouraging or assisting the commission of an indictable offence on or around" last Friday.

Curiouser and curiouser .....