[Liberty4eva]

Tired of people lecturing the USA for having a constitutional right for a law-obiding citizen to own a gun. Though I am a citizen of the USA, I can say that I have never fired nor owned a gun. But looking back on the places I've lived over all my years, I generally feel safer in the places where there is a gun culture. How is that? Well when I lived in California, a "liberal" state, my grandparents owned a lemon ranch that was routinely robbed. My uncle now owns the ranch and if you were to walk into the house, you would notice that there is loud classical music being played. In fact music is played in the house constantly in the hopes that it convinces a robber that someone is in the house and he better not rob it.

But when I moved to Montana, our house was never robbed. Not only that but I can't ever recall reading a newspaper article of anyone in town being robbed. No criminal would ever rob a house in Montana because the majority of houses own guns. It's not worth the risk for a criminal to rob a house where his life would be in real peril. And it's the same situation in the place I now live (Utah) which also has a gun culture. Even though neither myself nor my family has ever owned a gun, criminals don't know that.

So I say this to the UK readers. If you would like to live in a place where no one will ever rob your house, I'd say come to a state that has a reputation for a gun culture. The only sure thing to come from abolishing the right to own a gun is the law-abiding citizens will not have guns while the criminals still do.

[Shaun]

Okay well I've lived in a place where I've never been robbed already and thankfully no one's ever been shot dead either, though I daresay one doesn't just need personal experience to dismiss this as the most ridiculous 'argument' ever written.

[Kate!]

What Shaun said, plus it's in rather bad taste to see this sort of thing in the wake of the terrible happenings in Connecticut.

Wow.

So much insanity in so few paragraphs.

That constitutional right, was inserted to protect the citizens from the tyranny of government, at a time when the weapon of choice was a musket - not a 30 round carrying assault weapon. It takes between 30-60 seconds to load a single shot in a musket. What circumstances would require a citizen to have access to a weapon that soldiers in Afghanistan use on the front line?

It's also not a fair comparison to compare the most populated state in the US (California), with Montana, ranked 44th.

Here's a statistic that you might like, gun owners in America are 4 times more likely to be shot than citizens who don't own guns.

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_...ession-safety/

Originally Posted by Turboman

Okay well I've lived in a place where I've never been robbed already and thankfully no one's ever been shot dead either, though I daresay one doesn't just need personal experience to dismiss this as the most ridiculous 'argument' ever written.

Burglars love lemons.

Never buy a lemon, never be the victim of a crime.

Now that is a slogan the US can get behind.

[Liberty4eva]

I also get tired of the people who flaunt "statistics". Newsflash: you can basically manipulate statistics to make whatever point you want to make. This coming from someone who has a MASTERS degree in Statistics. Personal experience should trump whatever statistics pop out of a Michael Moore movie any day of the week.

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I also get tired of the people who flaunt "statistics". Newsflash: you can basically manipulate statistics to make whatever point you want to make. This coming from someone who has a MASTERS degree in Statistics. Personal experience should trump whatever statistics pop out of a Michael Moore movie any day of the week.

But one piece of anecdotal evidence from you, is supposed to be the thing that convinces everyone else?

Nonsense.

When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

But one piece of anecdotal evidence from you, is supposed to be the thing that convinces everyone else?

Nonsense.

When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.

My own personal experience is no better nor worse than anyone elses. The point I try to make is the side that there are people who get tired of being told that the 2nd amendment is a problem and if we got rid of it all these shootings would magically go away.
You have a president whose administration was caught in a scam called Fast and Furious where they would give guns to Mexican drug dealers and, when violence rose, blame the 2nd amendment. THAT is how bad they want to get rid of gun-ownership.

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

My own personal experience is no better nor worse than anyone elses. The point I try to make is the side that there are people who get tired of being told that the 2nd amendment is a problem and if we got rid of it all these shootings would magically go away.
You have a president whose administration was caught in a scam called Fast and Furious where they would give guns to Mexican drug dealers and, when violence rose, blame the 2nd amendment. THAT is how bad they want to get rid of gun-ownership.

Wayne LaPierre would be proud of your anti-Obama gun conspiracy theories. That F&F government scam you mentioned, is bollocks, and only in wingnut land did it have anything to do with the 2nd amendment. Now things are starting to make sense with you, though. Keep listening to Hannity and Limbaugh.

It's basic mathematics - less guns = less shootings, and it's absurd to claim anything else.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Wayne LaPierre would be proud of your anti-Obama gun conspiracy theories. That F&F government scam you mentioned, is bollocks, and only in wingnut land did itt have anything to do with the 2nd ammendment. Now things are starting to make sense with you, though. Keep listening to Hannity and Limbaugh.

It's basic mathematics - less guns = less shootings, and it's absurd to claim anything else.

Hmmm, well this last shooting happened in a state that has strict gun laws.

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Hmmm, well this last shooting happened in a state that has strict gun laws.

They were so strict, that a mother was able to take her son on trips to the shooting range in order to bond together. I know I'm both a leftie, and British, but gun laws that allow that scenario to play out, don't really seem that stringent to me.

[arista]

UK has more than enough of Guns

[SharkAttack]

We're pretty much screwed here. There will be more schools arming and training their teachers or education staff for protective measures rather than taking guns away from the general populace. There are too many folks with weapons, so the best plan they've got, and it's hard to disagree, is to equally arm themselves to protect themselves and the children. It's so imbued in society that getting it out will require decades of legislation, arguments, and possible civil war. Cluster**** if there's ever been one.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

But when I moved to Montana, our house was never robbed. Not only that but I can't ever recall reading a newspaper article of anyone in town being robbed.

I would guess that's because everyone is related .....

With a land area of 147,046 square miles (380,850 km2), Montana is slightly larger than Japan (pop 127,817,277) and slightly smaller than Paraguay (pop 6,669,086).

The population of Montana was 998,199 on July 1, 2011.

89.4% of the population was White (87.8% Non-Hispanic White Alone), 0.4% Black or African American, 6.3% American Indian and Alaska Native, 0.6% Asian, 0.1% Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, 0.6% from Some Other Race, and 2.5% from Two or More Races. Hispanics and Latinos of any race made up 2.9% of the population.

The largest European ancestry groups in Montana are: German (29.3%), Irish (16.4%), English (13.1%), and Norwegian (10%). In addition, 5.9% of the people identified their ancestry as "American".

Montana has one city, Billings, with a population over 100,000; and two cities with populations over 50,000, Missoula and Great Falls. These three communities along with Bozeman, Butte, Helena and Kalispell are the seven largest communities in Montana and the only communities to host major airports. Based on 2000 census numbers, they collectively contain 34 percent of Montana's population and the counties containing these communities hold more than 60 percent of the state's population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana

[Vanessa]

With all the respect i disagree. I hate guns. I think they're very dangerous.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Santa's Little Helper

We're pretty much screwed here. There will be more schools arming and training their teachers or education staff for protective measures rather than taking guns away from the general populace. There are too many folks with weapons, so the best plan they've got, and it's hard to disagree, is to equally arm themselves to protect themselves and the children. It's so imbued in society that getting it out will require decades of legislation, arguments, and possible civil war. Cluster**** if there's ever been one.

That's a horrible scenario to end up in.

Originally Posted by Christmas Neeve

That's a horrible scenario to end up in.

It won't happen. Gun advocates are already screaming for it, but 57% of the people favour tighter gun control.

Imagine a stressed teacher that accidentally drops the gun (or it falls out of the holster), and is picked up by a 6 year old.

Also, this kid was wearing body armour, so expecting a teacher to shoot a 14yr old in the head, is not a realistic outcome.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

It won't happen. Gun advocates are already screaming for it, but 57% of the people favour tighter gun control.

Imagine a stressed teacher that accidentally drops the gun (or it falls out of the holster), and is picked up by a 6 year old.

Also, this kid was wearing body armour, so expecting a teacher to shoot a 14yr old in the head, is not a realistic outcome.

Hopefully not, it's sounds absolutely horrific. Guns around kids like that is just completely wrong imo

[Jamie585]

What a Ridiculous Thread Title.

I'm sure all the families who have lost their child to The misuse of guns Find them cool too

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...#ixzz2FXJEGYYa

A Denver mother who believed her daughter was being bullied at school drove into the school's parking lot and threatened four girls with a gun, according to an arrest document.

Monica Avila, 34, was charged Tuesday with four counts of felony menacing and one count of possession of a weapon on school grounds, also a felony. According to the probable cause statement accompanying her arrest paperwork, Avila drove into the parking lot at Lake Middle School on Thursday afternoon and confronted four girls, ages 13 and 14.

The statement says Avila began arguing with the girls about bullying. She then, while still sitting in her car, pulled out a black semi-automatic handgun and said, "Look what I have," the document states.

Avila then drove out of the parking lot and parked across the street, as the girls told adults about what happened and called 911, according to the probable cause statement.

When officers arrived, they found Avila sitting in her car. They later found a handgun in the car.

Avila is being held in the Denver County Jail on a $50,000 bond. She is scheduled to appear in court again on Thursday to be formally advised of the charges against her, according to the Denver District Attorney's Office.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...ervice/1266589

ST. PETERSBURG — Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law has been cited in hundreds of cases. People have used it to justify shooting, stabbing, killing and maiming would-be intruders, romantic competitors and rival gang members.

And on Sunday, at a pizza joint in St. Petersburg, a man tried to use it as justification for shooting another customer who was yelling at workers because he wasn't getting his order fast enough.

Police said the incident unfolded about 4 p.m. inside the Little Caesars, 3463 Fourth St. N, after Randall White, 49, got mad about his service.

Another man in line, Michael Jock, 52, of St. Petersburg admonished White.

That "prompted them to exchange words and it became a shoving match," said police spokesman Mike Puetz.

White raised a fist. Jock, a concealed-weapons permit holder, pulled out a .38 Taurus Ultralight Special Revolver.

He fired one round, hitting White in the lower torso. The men grappled and the gun fired again, hitting White in roughly the same spot, police said.

One bullet lodged in a wall in the restaurant, which was occupied by at least two other people.

After the shooting, both men went outside and waited for police. Jock told officers the shooting was justified under "stand your ground," Puetz said.

"He felt he was in his rights," Puetz said. "He brought it up specifically and cited it to the officer."

He told officers he feared for his life. He mentioned that he thought White had an object in his hand, then backed off that when officers pressed him. Florida's "stand your ground law" says people are not required to retreat before using deadly force.

"We determined it did not reach a level where deadly force was required," Puetz said.

Police arrested Jock on charges of aggravated battery with a weapon and shooting within a building. He was released from jail on $20,000 bail.

Jock told the Tampa Bay Times he was meeting with a lawyer today, but declined further comment.

White was treated at Bayfront Medical Center and released. Reached by phone Monday night, he said he felt lucky to be alive. He was also angry.

"There are arguments every day, but how many people pull out a gun? When you pull a gun out and shoot somebody, your life better be in danger," White said. "He was in my face and I pushed him. His life was not being threatened."

White said he got mad because his thin-crust vegetable pie was taking longer than the 10 minutes he was promised.

"Twenty minutes later, I'm like, 'Where's my pizza?' " White said.

White, who admitted he was tired and agitated, started talking about the service. That's when he said Jock "started chewing me out."

White said the gun came out quickly. A shot rang out. The two men wrestled for the gun before the second shot was fired.

White said he still has a bullet fragment in his back.

"I got lucky," he said. "To me, that stand your ground rule … people are twisting it. He's twisting it. I walked in to get a pizza and I got shot … I'm hoping the law prevails. We'll see."

[Scarlett.]

Yes, we need more guns, because guns don't have a bad history in the UK do they?

Oh yeah, Dunblane and Raul Moat.

[Marc]

Ban guns tbh

[the truth]

ban guns period