[Omah]

The disabled Olympic and Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius, who stands accused of murdering his girlfriend in a Valentine's Day shooting, was involved in a freak gun accident just weeks before Reeva Steenkamp was shot dead, it emerged today.

According to reports, Pistorius, who is nicknamed ‘blade runner’, was dining in a busy restaurant when the gun accidentally went off, nearly hitting a friend's foot.

The incident allegedly happened last month during a dinner with friends and Pistorius’s 29-year-old model girlfriend.

The paralympic star was reportedly examining the gun, which belonged to a friend, when it snagged on his trousers and went off, narrowly missing a friend’s foot.

Blimey, guns in a restaurant .....

[Marc]

Wtf at today's SkyNews headline: Pistorious 'put on legs before firing gun'

[arista]

A graphic cartoon strip has been published
depicting the last moments before
Oscar Pistorius allegedly shot his girlfriend dead

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2LGyEdoGw

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by arista

A graphic cartoon strip has been published
depicting the last moments before
Oscar Pistorius allegedly shot his girlfriend dead

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2LGyEdoGw

This surely cannot be allowed, to publish "somebody's" thoughts on how this may have happened would be extremely prejudicial to any trial and grossly unfair. Better to let the experts present their case along with the evidence to hand and let a judge or Jury decide on the basis of that evidence. Not a cartoon story in a newspaper...????

[Kizzy]

Will there be a need for a jury?...It all looks rather damning

[Omah]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...-legal-q-and-a

What happens on Tuesday?

Oscar Pistorius is due to appear at Pretoria magistrates court at 9am local time (7am GMT) . His defence will argue that the category of the offence should be changed from the most serious, schedule six, to schedule five, giving him a better chance of being granted bail. The hearing has been allocated for Tuesday and Wednesday.


What is the likely outcome?

Most commentators expect bail to be denied. Usually this would mean that the defendant is transferred from a police station to a less comfortable prison. It remains unclear whether special provisions would be made for Pistorius's disability.


When would a trial start?

The South African courts are notoriously slow, but a high-profile case like this is expected to move faster. Legal experts interviewed by the Guardian predicted four to six months from now.

Where would it be?

Probably the high court in Pretoria.


Who would decide whether Pistorius is guilty or not?

A judge sitting alongside two assessors – typically magistrates or retired magistrates.


Why no jury?


South Africa abolished the jury system in the 1930s because of racial politics. Only white people were allowed to sit on juries and there was no hope of black defendants being given a fair trial. There was debate about reviving juries after the transition to democracy in 1994 but, given South Africa's 11 official languages, it would have been prohibitively expensive to hire interpreters.


How come the media have such a free rein to speculate and report leaks?

It is widely assumed that judges are less vulnerable to being swayed than a member of a jury, hence South Africa's more relaxed laws of sub judice. Unlike a jury, the judge is obliged to give written reasons for his findings of fact.


Can Pistorius get a fair trial?

Yes, says Prof Pamela Schwikkard, dean of law at Cape Town University. "There is a lot of media coverage of a lot of trials. In Britain it would be an issue, but here it wouldn't even be vaguely an issue."


If convicted of murder, what penalty could he face?

A minimum sentence of life in prison unless there are "substantial" circumstances in mitigation. He would be eligible for parole after 25 years, possibly earlier. By then he would be 51.


No death penalty?

Over a century about 3,500 South Africans, including anti-apartheid fighters, were hanged before the death penalty was abolished in 1995. Opinion polls show support for it as a solution to crime, but a constitutional court judge, Edwin Cameron, recently told how he is "proud of my president" for ruling out its reintroduction.

[Omah]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91F02L20130218

(Reuters) - Ever since 'Blade Runner' Oscar Pistorius's girlfriend was shot dead in his Pretoria home last week, South African papers have printed lurid details of the killing which, if true, pose major challenges to the Paralympic star's defense team, experts say.

Initial reports of the shooting in the early hours of Thursday suggested Pistorius, 26, a double amputee who became one of the biggest names in world athletics, may have mistaken law graduate and model Reeva Steenkamp for an intruder.

A statement released by his family dismissed the charge of murder laid on Friday in "the strongest terms". His bail hearing resumes in a Pretoria magistrate's court on Tuesday.

Within hours of the shooting, police confirmed that Steenkamp had been killed by more than one gunshot, that Pistorius was the only suspect, that neighbors had heard earlier disturbances, that there were no signs of a break-in and that a 9mm pistol had been recovered from the two-storey home.

Since then, police have released no more details.

The same cannot be said of the South African media, part of a global publicity machine that built up Pistorius into the ultimate sporting tale of triumph over adversity - a man who rose to the pinnacle of world athletics, racing at the Olympics despite having no lower legs.

Some of the most widely reported local media allegations are that Steenkamp was in the bathroom when she was shot, was hit by four rounds - in the head, hand, hip and chest - and that shots were fired through the bathroom door.

In addition, leading Sunday newspaper City Press said investigators had found a blood-stained cricket bat in Pistorius' bedroom. The paper said police had not yet worked out whose blood it was, but said Steenkamp's head was "crushed".

The newspaper also alleged that Steenkamp, who will be buried on Tuesday, had slept in the same bed as Pistorius that night - Valentine's Day eve - and that her iPad was on the bedroom floor along with an overnight bag.

The ENCA television channel said CCTV footage from the gated community showed Steenkamp arriving at the complex shortly after 6 p.m. on the previous evening.

Police have declined to comment on any of the reports, saying official details will only emerge in court.

However, the allegations - if true - undermine the legal argument of self-defense, as well as the suggestion that Pistorius was taken by surprise by a would-be stranger in his house in the middle of the night.

"If what the media says is in fact the truth, I cannot see that any defense based on self-defense can, by any stretch of the imagination, succeed," said Eddie Classen, a partner at BDK Attorneys, one of South Africa's biggest criminal defense firms.

"ROID RAGE"?

Under the white-minority rule that ended in 1994, South Africa had relatively lax curbs on the use of lethal force, not only in self-defense but also in making arrests. Put bluntly, if the only way to stop a fleeing robber was to shoot him, you could.

However, the laws were tightened up after the end of apartheid when the "right to life" became enshrined in the new constitution of Nelson Mandela's "Rainbow Nation", making it permissible to use lethal force only when your life is directly threatened.

Furthermore, when the immediate threat is gone - a shot intruder, say, goes down with a bullet in the leg - the self-defense argument ends.

"The law says that you have to stop the moment that you have repelled an attack, so normally one shot will suffice," said Steven Tuson, a professor of criminal law at Johannesburg's Wits University.

If Pistorius's lawyers choose to avoid the self-defense avenue, another option may be to argue temporary insanity based on chemical stimulants, a defense irreverently referred to in sports-mad South Africa as "roid rage", short for 'steroid'.

This is why Pistorius was taken for blood tests immediately after the shooting, Tuson said, "to exclude that defense". Classen also said the "roid rage" defense could only succeed in "extraordinary circumstances".

One other possible avenue is for Pistorius to argue "putative self-defense" - that he thought he was being attacked even if he wasn't. Even then, Classen said the content of the media reports, if true, curtailed his chances of success.

"The facts of the matter - and I caution again because I am only reading them from the media - suggest something totally different," he said.

Perhaps it would be simpler for Pistorius to plead guilty to a lesser charge .....

As usual, the only winners in a protracted case will be the lawyers .....

[Ammi]

The 26-year-old is accused of murdering Reeva Steenkamp in the early hours of Valentine’s Day and will appear again in court on Tuesday.

The City Press newspaper claims police have asked for blood taken from Pistorius to be tested for steroids in anticipation that his defence team might claim he acted in "roid rage" – an aggressive condition associated with taking large doses of performance-enhancing drugs.

Numerous British newspapers and sources also cite a report from The Sun that claimed steroids were found at the Paralympian's home.

"Steroid drugs were found at Pistorius’s home together with evidence of heavy drinking. That’s why police have specifically ordered that he be tested for steroids," The Sun claims.

There has been no immediate comment from police regarding the reported discovery of steroids.

The mother of Steenkamp, June, has spoken to South Africa’s Times newspaper of her family's loss with "the most beautiful person who ever lived" having to suffer a "horrendous death".

"She loved like no one else could love. She had so much of herself to give and now all of it is gone," she said. "Just like that, she is gone. In the blink of an eye and a single breath, the most beautiful person who ever lived is no longer here.

"All we have is this horrendous death to deal with, to get to grips with. All we want are answers, answers as to why this had to happen, why our beautiful daughter had to die like this."

Steenkamp's uncle Michael said the family would focus on saying farewell to her

[lostalex]

I didn't know he was only 26. I thought he was much older. I definitely think he's a murderer though. It's too bad South Africa doesn't have the death penalty.

I think people forget that South Africa is a 3rd world country because they speak english, but it is definitely a 3rd world country.

[Omah]

http://news.sky.com/story/1053938/os...o-kill-partner

During the bail hearing, prosecutor Gerrie Nel argued the Paralympian fired four shots at unarmed Reeva Steenkamp through a locked door, showing it was a premeditated murder. He added there was "a motive to kill".

Mr Nel said Ms Steenkamp was inside a small, cramped bathroom with an overnight bag because she was scared after they'd had a row on Valentine's Day.

Mr Nel said the defence had a number of questions to answer, including:

:: Why did Pistorius carry Ms Steenkamp's body down a staircase after she was shot?

:: Why didn't Pistorius look for his girlfriend if he suspected there was a burglar in the house?

:: Why did Ms Steenkamp lock herself in the toilet - was she afraid of being shot or killed?

:: Why did he put on his prosthetic limbs and walk seven metres to the bathroom?

Mr Nel said: "If I arm myself, walk a distance and murder a person, that is premeditated. The door is closed. There is no doubt. I walk seven metres and I kill. The motive is 'I want to kill'. That's it."

He added: "It wouldn't be correct for me to venture into the motive now. We can say that there was a motive to kill."

Meanwhile the athlete's defence lawyer Barry Roux said there was no evidence of premeditation, insisting he did not know it was Ms Steenkamp in the bathroom.

Arguing the law graduate's death was accidental, he said: "We submit it is not even murder. There is no concession this is a murder."

"All we really know is she locked herself behind the toilet door and she was shot," he added.

For the first time, Pistorius is expected to explain how his girlfriend died during the hearing.

If Pistorius thought there was an intruder in the bathroom, why didn't he check for whereabouts of Reeva first?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Omah

http://news.sky.com/story/1053938/os...o-kill-partner



If Pistorius thought there was an intruder in the bathroom, why didn't he check for whereabouts of Reeva first?

or here's a better question, if he thought there was an intruder in his bathroom, why didn't he just leave his house and call the cops from outside...

If i thought there was a criminal in my bathroom, i'd leave the house and call the cops. Walk out my front door, wait in my drive way for 10 minutes til the cops arrived and let them deal with it... that's what i'd do.

But i shouldn't really comment, cause i'm not a wife beater, so i can't really speak for what an abusive man would do...

[Omah]

Originally Posted by lostalex

or here's a better question, if he thought there was an intruder in his bathroom, why didn't he just leave his house and call the cops from outside...

Because he's his father's son - "shoot first, ask questions later" is an acceptable response, his father suggested

If i thought there was a criminal in my bathroom, i'd leave the house and call the cops. Walk out my front door, wait in my drive way for 10 minutes til the cops arrived and let them deal with it... that's what i'd do.

That's what I did when I was burgled the second time, but I'm not South African

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21502541

After hearing argument from both sides, the magistrate ruled that Mr Pistorius should indeed face a charge under the so-called "Schedule 6", or premeditated murder.

The judge reserved the right to downgrade his ruling at any time, but Mr Pistorius' legal team will now need to prove he deserves bail despite facing the most serious charge.

[lostalex]

Youtube video

[Omah]

The court has now been adjourned for lunch.

[lostalex]

Based on the posts i've seen online, it seems the public are on his side. It seems people are still supporting him even though the evidence is overwhelming at this point...

It's almost like they are saying "she deserved it".

That seems to be the jist of alot of the support for him, that he's a successful athlete, and she was just a hot girl taking advantage of him, so certainly she must have done something to MAKE him do this. It must be her fault some how, some way...

That's crazy to me.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Based on the posts i've seen online, it seems the public are on his side.

That's crazy to me.

Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if "the public" turn on the Reeva who, after all, was only a woman, and worse, a "model" with other men "friends" - if there was any doubt in the case, I'm sure that would have already started, particularly in SA .....

PS I see that you'd already edited your post to come to the same conclusion - great minds think alike .....

Originally Posted by Omah

Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if "the public" turn on the Reeva who, after all, was only a woman, and worse, a "model" with other men "friends" - if there was any doubt in the case, I'm sure that would have already started, particularly in SA .....

PS I see that you'd already edited your post to come to the same conclusion - great minds think alike .....

Whilst there is confusion around what happened, the public will always back a national icon. I believe he's completely guilty, and if this is the case, and the facts are ever fully known, the public won't be on his side.

Regardless of whether she was "just a model" or the the fact it's taking place "particularly in SA."

Other peoples sense of right and wrong isn't generally a product of their borders.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Other peoples sense of right and wrong isn't generally a product of their borders.

are you joking? of course borders have a lot to do with justice systems. are you telling me gay people get proper justice in all countries beyond all borders? that women get treated equally in all countries?

What are you talking about??

Of course Country borders play a HUGE role in the court systems. Do you honestly think a woman or a gay victim can get justice in African or Arab countries?

[Ammi]

...the South African justice system is different to ours and there is no trial by jury so it's legal to speculate about the case, which is what's happening...what is true and what is not, I'm not sure obviously..I do think it was murder yes, but whether it was premeditated has to be determined yet as we don't know the extent of this speculation...


..I do feel as well though that more focus in general should be on the fact that a young lady is dead and her life and the sadness of that before all attention is turned to him because he's not going anywhere and will be punished for his crime...hopefully....

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Whilst there is confusion around what happened, the public will always back a national icon. I believe he's completely guilty, and if this is the case, and the facts are ever fully known, the public won't be on his side.

Regardless of whether she was "just a model" or the the fact it's taking place "particularly in SA."

Other peoples sense of right and wrong isn't generally a product of their borders.

Have you been to South Africa or have you got friends/relatives living there?

Originally Posted by lostalex

are you joking? of course borders have a lot to do with justice systems. are you telling me gay people get proper justice in all countries beyond all borders? that women get treated equally in all countries?

What are you talking about??

Of course Country borders play a HUGE role in the court systems. Do you honestly think a woman or a gay victim can get justice in African or Arab countries?

The point I was responding to, is the reaction of the people in support of the hero versus the model. I'm well aware that justice systems are corrupt around the world. South Africa actually has a fairly robust system with the scrapping of juries for judges.

Originally Posted by Omah

Have you been to South Africa or have you got friends/relatives living there?

Why?

[MTVN]

It's not that they're supporting him it's just shock and disbelief that one of their greatest sporting heroes and national icons would have done such a thing, it's a pretty incredible fall from grace

[Kizzy]

Now then now then.... it is possible for people to be more than they appear to be?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Now then now then.... it is possible for people to be more than they appear to be?

Well obviously, there's always more to people than merely how they appear in the public eye