[Ninastar]

agree with Kizzy. Media seems to love these 'scumbag hates on black/gay/trans etc person' stories now.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It isn't classed as anything as no arrests were made, it was a misunderstanding in a toilet which was resolved without escalation.
Wow Charlie Brooker was right, there really is nothing that people won't be outraged against, horrified at or personally offended by is there?

Doesnt matter whether arrests were made or not, someone grabbing or even touching without valid reason is still assault.

Allegations and then charges can be made for a good while afterwards. Once the PC claims people get on the case, those two girls could find themselves in court.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Doesnt matter whether arrests were made or not, someone grabbing or even touching without valid reason is still assault.

Allegations and then charges can be made for a good while afterwards. Once the PC claims people get on the case, those two girls could find themselves in court.

They may argue they had a valid reason? But you could be right, there are some very unscrupulous lawyers about that make these cases their bread and butter.

[Ninastar]

if you were drunk (even not drunk) and there was what you thought a man in the toilets, you'd freak out. You hear all kinds of horrible things happening during any time of the day.

[lostalex]

Even if it was a man using the women's room, is it such a big deal that it would justify assualting him? I've used the women's room many times, never had a problem. They usually just look embarassed for me, i think they assume i accidentally went to the wrong bathroom. Sometimes the men's room is just such a disaster zone i use the women's room. not a big deal.

[Ammi]

..I think for me, posting this story is less about this particular incident and more to discuss transgender in general..whether someone is considered a male/female, when going through the transformation in such simple things like which loo do they use...when I post news stories in serious debates, sometimes it's because they interest me or are generally 'newsworthy' and sometimes it's just things I hadn't thought of that maybe are part of some people's everyday lives and I feel, maybe I should think about them more, so am always interested in other people's views etc...I don't think this was a National news thing but something just in the local student news (I got it off another site) and until Luke became a HM in BB12, I hadn't really thought much about transgender..it's interesting and thought provoking as well with the 'sexuality' thread...because lots of people struggle so much with having their sexuality 'accepted'...it's very sad and shouldn't still happen in 2013..but 'progress' seems to be very slow in these things...

EDIT:..oh, I should say as well that whatever the specific story..abortion, capital punishment etc..I know these things have all been done before but it's still nice to get a general discussion going....

[Kizzy]

There will always be ignorance and confusion around things that go against our own cultural and social norms, things are changing due to raising awareness and education.
As a nation I would say we are on the whole much more accepting of differing sexual orientation, religious beliefs and political attitudes now.

[MTVN]

A lot of places are beginning to install "gender neutral" toilets now, I was reading the other day about how Brighton city council is planning to introduce them everywhere and gradually phase out men and women's separate toilets. I'm not sure if that's really necessary though and could have the effect of putting off more people using them

[Ammi]

..have they got them at Norwich MTVN..?...

[Kizzy]

They have them in Leeds...
''Quick question: do you know where the gender neutral toilet in the union is?

It wouldn’t surprise me if you said you didn’t. It’s further along the corridor from the ground floor men’s toilets, by the way.''

[MTVN]

As far as I know they don't have them yet, though I did read in the student newspaper that they were going to introduce them at the university, I'm not sure when that is though. Im not opposed to them but think it's better if they're there as an alternative to single sex toilets rather than as a replacement for them

[Omah]

Originally Posted by MTVN

As far as I know they don't have them yet, though I did read in the student newspaper that they were going to introduce them at the university, I'm not sure when that is though. Im not opposed to them but think it's better if they're there as an alternative to single sex toilets rather than as a replacement for them

That's probably a cheaper option, too - which will, inevitably, be a major consideration.

[Kizzy]

There would be no question of them ever being the only option anyway... Some groups would insist on gender specific toilets I would think.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There would be no question of them ever being the only option anyway... Some groups would insist on gender specific toilets I would think.

Me and my group would - we're very rude and very smelly - we wouldn't like to upset any ladies .....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Omah

Me and my group would - we're very rude and very smelly - we wouldn't like to upset any ladies .....

Well there you are then, you're happy they're happy everyone is happy

[Niall]

Even if they did mistake her for a man, I still regard shoving someone out of the toilets assault. Alcohol may have been involved, but they still intentionally shoved her out of the toilets.

It's not transphobic per se, but then again it's not exactly right to shove someone out of a room like that either. Ideally the two girls would have confronted her about it or called in security.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niall

Even if they did mistake her for a man, I still regard shoving someone out of the toilets assault. Alcohol may have been involved, but they still intentionally shoved her out of the toilets.

It's not transphobic per se, but then again it's not exactly right to shove someone out of a room like that either. Ideally the two girls would have confronted her about it or called in security.

Yeah but.... this is Leeds, we shove first and ask questions later

[Glenn.]

Well done you then

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Well done you then

Fanks glenn!

[Glenn.]

That's ok. I appreciate people who push other people around and think its right

[Kizzy]

Do you, who do you know that does that then?

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Even if it was a man using the women's room, is it such a big deal that it would justify assualting him? I've used the women's room many times, never had a problem. They usually just look embarassed for me, i think they assume i accidentally went to the wrong bathroom. Sometimes the men's room is just such a disaster zone i use the women's room. not a big deal.

you really are unbelievably self-centered

[Redway]

I really don't understand why people are making a big deal of this "pushing" thing. I dare say that if this transphobia thing wasn't involved, this wouldn't have even made the headlines.

They had probably had a drink or two and freaked out when they saw a member of the opposite sex using a girls' toilet (and understandably so). It would happen any other night with anyone else, most probably.

It's as simple as that.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Redway

I really don't understand why people are making a big deal of this "pushing" thing. I dare say that if this transphobia thing wasn't involved, this wouldn't have even made the headlines.

They had probably had a drink or two and freaked out when they saw a member of the opposite sex using a girls' toilet (and understandably so). It would happen any other night with anyone else, most probably.

It's as simple as that.

Why would you freak out though seeing a guy in the ladies especially as there were two of them thats the bit I don't understand??. Maybe Manchester is much more metropolitan than I thought but it's not that unusual to see people in the opposite bathrooms in clubs and I've never once seen anyone freak about it.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by anniek76

Why would you freak out though seeing a guy in the ladies especially as there were two of them thats the bit I don't understand??. Maybe Manchester is much more metropolitan than I thought but it's not that unusual to see people in the opposite bathrooms in clubs and I've never once seen anyone freak about it.

It's definitely quite odd and I agree that it isn't really tantamount to lashing out on someone to such an extent. I just put it down to the alcohol. It was probably drink-fueled, which may aggravate otherwise negligible scenarios.