[Apple202]

No, because it's not transphobic seen as though a third gender is widely recognised throughout the world for people who weren't biologically born male or female but have changed their gender during their life. And basically your main argument has been insinuating that Pansexuals are transphobic which in itself is intolerant seen as it's not true.

[Jack_]

Okay, so this is the way I have always viewed pansexuality. Again, I don't see myself as pansexual despite having toyed with the idea a few years ago, I've already explained all of that earlier in the thread.

Some people see gender as a social construct. Your sex is the biological difference between human beings (what bits you have), but gender is a construct that has been created and adopted by humans over generations. Masculinity and femininity are constructs, people just fall under these categories because that's what they're socialised into from the minute they're born. I'm talking anything from Barbie for girls, Action Man for boys to sport for men, hairdressing for women. In the 21st century these boundaries are constantly being blurred, things like metrosexuality are a perfect example of this.

So, as such, pansexuals don't see two genders. They see people (with different bits if you like). One race essentially. And they acknowledge that they could fall in love with any person, it's about the personality rather than their 'gender' or appearance. I believe bisexuals differ from this in that they don't see gender as a social construct, see two races of people, and are consciously aware of the fact they are attracted to both 'genders'. That's not to say bisexuals don't care about personality, just that pansexuals care most specifically about that and see 'gender' as irrelevant.

This answer from a Yahoo Answers question sums it up fairly well:

They're similar in that you would find someone identifying as bisexual being attracted to both genders, and you would find someone identifying as pansexual being attracted to both genders. The difference, though, is that bisexual people would say they are attracted to men and women, and see men and women as two separate genders, equally attractive in their mind (although I say "equally" loosely, because this is on a spectrum, and even someone that is bisexual might either be equally attracted to men & women, or slightly more attracted to one gender).

People who identify as pansexual, though, would not "see" gender the way many do. It's almost incidental, in much the same way the color of someone's hair can be. Someone who is pansexual will fall in love with a person, not a gender. So they find love and it might happen to be with a man, or it might be with a woman. The only thing that matters is the heart & soul of who they love, not the body/gender containing it. I identify as pansexual. I'm a woman in love with a woman, so society would like to call me gay, or a lesbian, but I just see myself as being someone in love with another person. Other people can choose whatever labels they want to use.

[Jack_]

Thank you Apple

[Munchkins]

It's not commonly known as the third gender! that's what its classified in countries such as thailand, where they wont give trans the same rights as male or females so have created this "third gender"
Trans people are male or female, whether they were biologically born that, they have become male or female
they do not transition to become a third gender, and most do not jump in and out of genders, once they have transitioned to their new, true gender, they stay that way

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Munchkins

It's not commonly known as the third gender! that's what its classified in countries such as thailand, where they wont give trans the same rights as male or females so have created this "third gender"
Trans people are male or female, whether they were biologically born that, they have become male or female
they do not transition to become a third gender, and most do not jump in and out of genders, once they have transitioned to their new, true gender, they stay that way

Thank you!

[Kizzy]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=D...0freud&f=false

There you go, according to freud it does not exist?

[Apple202]

Originally Posted by Munchkins

It's not commonly known as the third gender! that's what its classified in countries such as thailand, where they wont give trans the same rights as male or females so have created this "third gender"
Trans people are male or female, whether they were biologically born that, they have become male or female
they do not transition to become a third gender, and most do not jump in and out of genders, once they have transitioned to their new, true gender, they stay that way

What? Where have you got that Thailand 'fact' from It's been called a third gender for years, it's now a new term that has been conjured up recently to allow laws in second or third world countries to be transphobic.

And whether you want to see it or not, there is a difference between people who were naturally and biologically born male and female, and to those who were born in one but switched to the other, and the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality reflects that.

[Munchkins]

Everyones preaching about being open and not offensive, yet are offending different lifestyles whilst trying to support their own. The term third gender is very offensive to practically all transgender people, as i said the only places it are used are places where trans people wont and arent being given the same rights, and so this third gender has been created. The only way i can see this term being fit, is for intersexed people..
All i'm saying is i know my friend would be very offending about it, though she cant speak for the whole transgender population obviously

[Glenn.]

There's some loooooong posts in this thread.

-will have to read back before I join the debate-

[Munchkins]

Originally Posted by Apple202

What? Where have you got that Thailand 'fact' from It's been called a third gender for years, it's now a new term that has been conjured up recently to allow laws in second or third world countries to be transphobic.

And whether you want to see it or not, there is a difference between people who were naturally and biologically born male and female, and to those who were born in one but switched to the other, and the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality reflects that.

So basically all people are pansexual then? Heterosexuals males who would date Transgender women are now Heterosexual Pansexuals?

[Apple202]

Originally Posted by Munchkins

So basically all people are pansexual then? Heterosexuals males who would date Transgender women are now Heterosexual Pansexuals?

Your attempt to be patronising is failing seen as though that makes no sense, Heterosexuals go for the opposite gender, not commonly transgenders which are bound to have both masculine and feminine features due to the switching of gender.

[Munchkins]

Originally Posted by Apple202

Your attempt to be patronising is failing seen as though that makes no sense, Heterosexuals go for the opposite gender, not commonly transgenders which are bound to have both masculine and feminine features due to the switching of gender.

Me attempting to be patronising?
But not all transgenders are bound to have both masculine and feminine features if they transition early..

[Munchkins]

Are all Bisexuals who would date transgender people now pansexual? i really do not see the difference as there is no true third gender, unless you class intersexed people as that i suppose

[Cherie]

oh dear, this thread.

[Munchkins]

And the fact from Thailand was from a BBC documentary i watched, perfectly showed how Thailand and countries such as Idonesia praise that they have trans rights, and allow them to transition, yet still outcast them from society, and make themselves declare they're are a 3rd gender, and dont get the same rights as male and females..

[smeagol]

im a male lesbian lol

[Ninastar]

So glad I'm not alone on this.

[Kizzy]

No don't worry you're not. It's just another thing to be mortally offended by, if you don't understand the smorgasbord of 'sexuals' there are it's ok nina.

[Jack_]

I wonder what's worse. Being offended by a Ricky Gervais sitcom or insults directed towards someone's sexual orientation. Tricky one...

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's just another thing to be mortally offended by, if you don't understand the smorgasbord of 'sexuals' there are it's ok nina.

It's more than just a thing..... to quote the ever great Rachel Rice, "we're talking about peoples feelings"... try entering the shoes of the people of the opposite side of your debate.

[Jack_]

But see it's ever so easy for people who have absolutely no experience of struggling with and questioning their sexuality (**** me I'd give anything to not have had to go through it) to criticise others for theirs but I'm amazed at how anybody who has experienced such struggles themselves could fail to see how their comments may hurt somebody else's feelings.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

But see it's ever so easy for people who have absolutely no experience of struggling with and questioning their sexuality (**** me I'd give anything to not have had to go through it) to criticise others for theirs but I'm amazed at how anybody who has experienced such struggles themselves could fail to see how their comments may hurt somebody else's feelings.

How do you know what experiences others may have had on this forum jack, fgs stop being so melodramatic.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The problem is Jack that no one seems to be able to give a proper explanation as to how Pansexuals are any different to Bisexuals. If there was a clear difference there would be no confusion, how can you expect people to respect this "different" sexual orientation when as far as I can see there is no difference at all

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Jack you are choosing to take offence, and then being rude on the back of that.

If a Bisexual is someone who doesn't care what gender someone is, then how is Pansexual any different?

There is though. I respect what you're saying but as I mentioned earlier on this thread, people are bisexual if they are attracted to the two main, cissexual sexes; pansexual people are attracted to that and everyone else in between. If you consider yourself to be bisexual, but would still have sex with transgender, intrasex people, etc, then maybe people need to excogitate what sexuality they refer to themselves as.

Not that there's anything wrong with being pansexual. Refusal to admit that usually stems from stigma attached to a particular sexual group, as lostalex said.

[Ninastar]

I'm not relabelling myself pansexual just because I would have sex with someone who is transgender.

[Jack_]

Nobody has to label themselves as anything, people should be able to identify themselves as they wish. Slagging off such labels is what is the problem here.