[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Many of those getting hit by this ARE working.

Yes but they cut there cloth
and Keep the UK Great

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It is noting to do with working labour voters arista, by this do you mean sun readers?..
It is about seeing the bigger picture here, seeing what happened before and learning from it, being proactive ... the diluting of inner cities to other areas will happen now but in a chaotic fashion.

Yes Kizzy I agree.

[Kizzy]

You clearly don't, if you agree with the measures used as of today that are counterproductive.
something had to be done I understand that but to take a sledgehammer and bash away like they have is going to have a severe effect.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You clearly don't, if you agree with the measures used as of today that are counterproductive.
something had to be done I understand that but to take a sledgehammer and bash away like they have is going to have a severe effect.

No Kizzy


I can get something good out of everything
even Gloom.


Sledgehammers Great to knock down old homes bits
and update them.

You Are Most Wise Kizzy.

[Kizzy]

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

No Kizzy


I can get something good out of everything
even Gloom.


Sledgehammers Great to knock down old homes bits
and update them.

You Are Most Wise Kizzy.

Great! then why didn't they do that? there are 1000's of social housing going derelict up and down the country... who is utilising this resource?
It is nice to be able to look on the bright side, not so if you are affected. Thankyou, I am not wise though I just speak as I find, and I find this exploitative.

[joeysteele]

There is one thing that should never be forgotten by the opponents,(and I am one of them), of this bedroom tax.

It is a totally rotten idea and subsequent heartless policy from the Conservatives but it could never have got passed and brought into being had the Lib Dems not agreed to support it.
It is only with the votes of the Lib Dems that this got through Parliament, with 57 MPs they could easily have forced this to be massively moderated or even scrapped altogether.
I hope voters remember that in 2015 at the election.

[waterhog]

they won't no voter will - we have very short memories - my example is that the conseratives have got back into power (colaition) even after what they done last time- then again - labour are no better. so who do you vote for ?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by waterhog

they won't no voter will - we have very short memories - my example is that the conseratives have got back into power (colaition) even after what they done last time- then again - labour are no better. so who do you vote for ?

Well I for sure won't be voting for either of these 2 party's now. I also think the voters will have this in their minds, the bedroom tax effects will really hit next year in 2014.

People will try to pay it and stay in the homes they are in especially with Spring and Summer coming on, thinking likely they can save on Gas and Electricity in those seasons.

The difficulties will likely start in Winter and rent arrears will then likely rise to high levels, that will see in 2014 court action likely being taken against tenants and even eviction orders too.
The election has to be in May 2015,by March/April 2015 the election campaigns will be starting so it will be in the voters minds I would think and hope.

I was talking to an elderly lady yesterday, who asked me how long has this Govt got to go now, I said around 2 years yet.
She volunteered to say, that she thought, David Cameron had been right to say he had got rid of the nasty Conservative party.
To which I looked surprised until she added, he has got rid of that one to create an even nastier one.
I had to smile at that.

[Vicky.]

http://rosecrystal.blog.co.uk/2013/0...sors-15693992/

Erm..I know this is just a blog, and I havent managed to find this anywhere else so its to be taken with a pinch of salt...but if true, this is absolutely disgusting. Especially given the rise of homeless people there will be once this bites properly.

The government has scrapped its team of expert homelessness advisors despite a dramatic increase in the problem.

In an email sent earlier this month to councils across England, Communities and Local Government department officials said its expert advisors were to be disbanded from 31 March.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://rosecrystal.blog.co.uk/2013/0...sors-15693992/

Erm..I know this is just a blog, and I havent managed to find this anywhere else so its to be taken with a pinch of salt...but if true, this is absolutely disgusting. Especially given the rise of homeless people there will be once this bites properly.

It just gets worse Vicky, also the more we learn the more ugly and sinister is the clear thinking behind this policy.
Shocking and really beyond any defence in my opinion. It is the silence now from the Lib Dems that astounds me, I know even a lot of their own councillors were and still are screaming for this bedroom tax/charge to be massively looked at again.

As you say,if this is true, it is disgusting.

[Nedusa]

Why am I reading post after post condemning this policy as heartless and cruel ?? The Govt is trying to role back 50 years or more of ridiculous social welfare misuse and abuse that has resulted in a whole generation of families possibly even more than one generation who are better off NOT working for a living.

Yes thanks to mostly labour and liberal social welfare acts passed year on year benefits have ballooned and are claimed by people who clearly do not need them. It's not their fault I mean why would anyone work if they can receive the same money or more for NOT working.

This nonsense has gone on too long and it needs a major economic recession to force the Govt in power to start to reform this monster.

So lets leave out the colourful language this present course of action is painful but is necessary to reset the natural order of things. You do not get more money for doing nothing than someone gets for working all week... That's just plain wrong and thankfully finally the Govt is redressing the balance and changing this outrageous aberration...!!!

[joeysteele]

Well this thread is concerned with the bedroom tax/charge, however like not getting 2.5 million unemployed into only half a million vacancies.
It is not going to be anywhere near possible to get the people so called under occupying out of the houses they currently live in because there are not the properties for them to move to.
However, they will still have to pay this extra tax.

That is a disgrace and it is heartless, there are no other words for that since these are people at the very lowest end of the scale as to income.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Why am I reading post after post condemning this policy as heartless and cruel ?? The Govt is trying to role back 50 years or more of ridiculous social welfare misuse and abuse that has resulted in a whole generation of families possibly even more than one generation who are better off NOT working for a living.

Yes thanks to mostly labour and liberal social welfare acts passed year on year benefits have ballooned and are claimed by people who clearly do not need them. It's not their fault I mean why would anyone work if they can receive the same money or more for NOT working.

This nonsense has gone on too long and it needs a major economic recession to force the Govt in power to start to reform this monster.

So lets leave out the colourful language this present course of action is painful but is necessary to reset the natural order of things. You do not get more money for doing nothing than someone gets for working all week... That's just plain wrong and thankfully finally the Govt is redressing the balance and changing this outrageous aberration...!!!

You seem to be labouring under the impression this only affects those on JSA?...

The National Housing Federation (NHF) says the reform will fail to solve overcrowding and could even increase the welfare bill.

If everyone moved, many would end up in the private rented sector, in some cases meaning larger housing benefit claims and the expense of adapting new homes for disabled tenants.

It found around two-thirds of those affected are disabled. The Government has said local councils have been provided with sufficient hardship funds to deal with such cases.

Disabled children expected to share a room under the new rules are among a group who have won the right to a judicial review of the policy, claiming it affects them disproportionately.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_2989607.html

[Nedusa]

If I owned my house or was renting my house with a tenancy agreement , no one is going to come along and start telling me I have too many bedrooms and try and make me change my house or flat.

So what people are affected by this ? Could it be people who live in houses rent free where the council pays the rent for these people. If that is the case then I think you'll agree the people living there are not in the strongest bargaining position and may struggle to negotiate if asked to downsize because they have bedrooms they don't use and many families are squeezed into tiny houses with 2 or 3 children sharing a bedroom.

So what exactly is wrong with trying to redress the imbalance in the system ?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

If I owned my house or was renting my house with a tenancy agreement , no one is going to come along and start telling me I have too many bedrooms and try and make me change my house or flat.

So what people are affected by this ? Could it be people who live in houses rent free where the council pays the rent for these people. If that is the case then I think you'll agree the people living there are not in the strongest bargaining position and may struggle to negotiate if asked to downsize because they have bedrooms they don't use and many families are squeezed into tiny houses with 2 or 3 children sharing a bedroom.

So what exactly is wrong with trying to redress the imbalance in the system ?

Have you read the article nedusa?... It would appear not, where would you like these people to go? you are all for this social cleansing of the social housing stock, what I don' hear is any soloution from you as to alternative accomodation.
Come on, we're all ears, what's the solution?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Have you read the article nedusa?... It would appear not, where would you like these people to go? you are all for this social cleansing of the social housing stock, what I don' hear is any soloution from you as to alternative accomodation.
Come on, we're all ears, what's the solution?

I thought I understood the article perhaps I'm missing something , I'll read it again, I thought the idea was that people with spare or surplus bedrooms which they don't use and find expensive to heat are prepared to swap houses with families who are squeezed into houses with too few bedrooms for the number of children they have. I thought the plan in theory made sense. Perhaps I have not fully understood all the implications of this new law.

[Vicky.]

There is not enough smaller properties for these people to move to.

and

It affects workers too. Not just the unemployed.

That is all.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I thought I understood the article perhaps I'm missing something , I'll read it again, I thought the idea was that people with spare or surplus bedrooms which they don't use and find expensive to heat are prepared to swap houses with families who are squeezed into houses with too few bedrooms for the number of children they have. I thought the plan in theory made sense. Perhaps I have not fully understood all the implications of this new law.

In theory, most of the welfare reforms make sense.

However the unfair way they are implemented and actually thought out(or not thought out, as it happens)...well it makes me think of a child sitting trying to bash a square peg into a round hole with a gigantic hammer.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There is not enough smaller properties for these people to move to.

and

It affects workers too. Not just the unemployed.

That is all.

Then surely once the smaller properties have all been filled with more suitable families the scheme will stop, it will only work as a two way transfer. Once the smaller properties have been exchanged people living in larger bedroomed properties would not be able to participate and as such would not be involved.

That's right isn't it ??

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Then surely once the smaller properties have all been filled with more suitable families the scheme will stop, it will only work as a two way transfer. Once the smaller properties have been exchanged people living in larger bedroomed properties would not be able to participate and as such would not be involved.

That's right isn't it ??

Not quite. I'll give an example to try and explain one of the problems

A family are very very unlikely to be in a 1 bed flat/house. As not many 1 bed social properties exist in the first place(confirmed by many councils). So lets assume these overcrowded families are in 2 bedroomed properties.

A couple in a highrise 2 bed flat are 'underoccupying'.

The couple could not swap with the family. As it wouldnt make a difference. They also cant downsize, as there arent any one bed places. They will be hit with this penalty even though they cant actually do anything about it, nor would them moving actually help anything.


--

I live in social housing right now. I dont get housing benefit (at the moment) though so this doesnt apply to me, but it might in the future.

When we applied for a council property, we asked for a 2 bedroomed place. We were told point blank that the waiting list was years long for a 2 bed place, but they had a 3 bed place available that could be moved into within the next fortnight..and we were entitled to it as my partners children stay with us on a regular basis.

So, years ago, the waiting list was massive for a small property..so people were housed in properties larger than what they actually needed (we could have slept on the sofa when gavs kids were here, for example). The government are blaming the low paid/unemployed for their **** ups yet again. they sold off all the council stock (both tories and labour) and never built more. They housed people in places they are now 'underoccupying' and they think its fair to penalise these claimants when there is nothing at all the claimant can do to help their situation.

To add to this...pensioners are the group most likely to be rattling round in 3/4 bed houses. But they are exempt.

People (like me) who are officially 'underoccupying' but dont claim housing benefit...arent expected to downsize either.

So its not about freeing up housing at all. Or both of those groups would be included. It would be everyone in social housing.

[Vicky.]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_2989607.html

No alternative accomodation available for 96% of people hit by this bedroom tax. Thats how fair this is...

Labour said freedom of information responses showed local councils had sufficient one and two bedroom properties to house only one in 20 of those families with spare rooms.

Responses from 37 authorities across Britain revealed 96,041 households faced losing benefit but there were only 3,688 smaller homes available.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_2989607.html

No alternative accomodation available for 96% of people hit by this bedroom tax. Thats how fair this is...

Yet still they will be taking money off their original entitlements even though they have nowhere else to downsize too.

I think that is totally shocking, the sooner this shower of a heartless,gutless Govt is thrown out the better.
It nearly makes you ashamed to be British but I know I can do my bit to get rid of this lot in 2015,it is just a pity that is the only concession the Lib Dems got from the Conservatives, a fixed term parliament so that we have to wait until 2015 before they can be got rid of.

Imagine the stress, worry, panic and chaos this will be causing to the numbers listed by you above.
Its inhuman.

[Vicky.]

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenan...526399.article

Northern Ireland to reject the bedroom tax.

At least some of the UK has a bit of sense.

[michael21]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenan...526399.article

Northern Ireland to reject the bedroom tax.

At least some of the UK has a bit of sense.

the uk all have sense its just the mp the run the county that done

green man tax coming in soon