[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Cherie

were you protesting against capitalism GG, May day is around the corner.

Yep, I was fighting capitalism and poverty at the same time.

Originally Posted by Ninastar

and my bra you thieving slut

[joeysteele]

For me, I don't really like marches and protesting demos really but I would never say they shouldn't be allowed.

I think now, what happens is that genuine protesters do a march or demo but it ges hijacked by troublemakers who go on to cause damage at times and asl bring down the march/demo by their actions.

Sadly the media go along, not to highlight the grievance the genuine protesters have but to really look out for the trouble aspect of such protests and that is what gets broadcast.The genuine protesters then often get labelled as louts or scum along with the troublemakers.

I will though,break my own rule not to join a protest and join any such protests against the bedroom tax.
Sometimes and I hate to say this, there has to be great disruption to get a totally unjust law or ruling done away with especially when you have a heartless Govt that refuses to listen.
However, though only to certain sections of UK citizens, in this Govt's case it is the weakest and most vulnerable they treat like mushrooms,keeping them in a dark place and shovelling .... muck on them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

For me, I don't really like marches and protesting demos really but I would never say they shouldn't be allowed.

I think now, what happens is that genuine protesters do a march or demo but it ges hijacked by troublemakers who go on to cause damage at times and asl bring down the march/demo by their actions.

Sadly the media go along, not to highlight the grievance the genuine protesters have but to really look out for the trouble aspect of such protests and that is what gets broadcast.The genuine protesters then often get labelled as louts or scum along with the troublemakers.

I will though,break my own rule not to join a protest and join any such protests against the bedroom tax.
Sometimes and I hate to say this, there has to be great disruption to get a totally unjust law or ruling done away with especially when you have a heartless Govt that refuses to listen.
However, only not to certain sections of UK citizens, in this Govt's case it is the weakest and most vulnerable they treat like mushrooms,keeping them in a dark place and shovelling .... muck on them.

Totally joey, I agree will all your points here, those who have a genuine grievance and wish to make their voice heard are drowned out by the media wailing against one or two individuals who have broken the law during the course of the protest, whether or not they are there as part of that protest. You can then bet this will be the lasting impression and image that is used, so the original message is lost or rendered irrelevant.

I just hope that the heavy handed tactics such a kettling are not used again, this practice was unnecessary and once again showed the police used as militia during protests.
I had a giggle at your last point, this is how the public feel, they are confused and let down by government, they feel betrayed and abandoned. From cradle to grave there is not one section of society the welfare cuts have not negatively affected. Anger, frustration and resentment at the cutting adrift of the poor, elderly and disabled in Britain is building.
But most of all I would say they feel blindsided, nobody in 2010 saw this coming.... just like in 1979 nobody saw the cuts inflicted crippling communities in the early 80's coming.

I don't know how or why people get so jumpy at the mention of protests, they are testament to the gumption and the spirit of the British. The very thing that we were expected to feel proud about during the war is now seen as a negative. Those who protest are seen as those to be subdued and tutted at... why?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

and my bra you thieving slut

this was the real reason behind the riots

[arista]

Originally Posted by Nathan

it gets its point across, at least

Not every time.
Many times it gets the Public Hating Students

[Omah]

We'd all be paying Thatcher's Poll Tax if it wasn't for "protest" .....

[billy123]

Yeah screw those stupid suffragettes and their pointless protests duh.
Women voting pah wasting there time they were.

And what about that knobhead in Tiananmen Square pah should have just took his shopping home.

I have and do protest both in real life and online if i feel something is unfair or encroaches against someones life unfairly i will do what little i can to help their cause.

Its easy to sit and do nothing or to try and look down on others that are trying to fight for what they believe in when it doesnt directly effect you. Thats the cowards option.
When it comes to something that is going to impact on you personally dont be suprised when you are left on your own if all you have done is look down and sneer at people in the past.

[joeysteele]

The post made above as to the poll tax is a perfect example of why demos and marches should be allowed.
It was a ridiculous and unjust policy and it was the demonstrations that helped make the Govt get nervous and think again as to it,then get rid of it.

[Omah]

That lot look like troublemakers to me .....



150,000 people took part in each of the 1961 and 1962 marches. Their achievements may have been minimal but they considerably increased public awareness of government deception and self-interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaig...r_CND_policies

As CND did not have a national membership until 1966, the strength of public support in its early days can be estimated only from the numbers of those attending demonstrations or expressing approval in opinion polls. Between 1955 and 1962, between 19% to 33% of people in Britain expressed disapproval of the manufacture of nuclear weapons.

[Livia]

The Poll Tax riots in the early 90s, despite being quite violent at times, did bring about the end of Poll Tax and forced the government to rethink... and yet the peaceful protests by hundreds of thousands of people against going into Iraq were completely ignored and we were taken to war on a string of lies. I believe in people's right to protest, but I'm not sure it ever achieves anything.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Poll Tax riots in the early 90s, despite being quite violent at times, did bring about the end of Poll Tax and forced the government to rethink... and yet the peaceful protests by hundreds of thousands of people against going into Iraq were completely ignored and we were taken to war on a string of lies. I believe in people's right to protest, but I'm not sure it ever achieves anything.

You didn't get the right to vote just because those with wealth and power thought the masses should join their club .....

As many as 15 "protesters" were killed and 700 injured at Peterloo, where a crowd of 60,000–80,000 (including many women) had gathered to demand the reform of parliamentary representation, by the sabre, bayonet, ball and hoof of the Manchester and Salford Yeomanry .....

[joeysteele]

I do 100% agree we were taken to war on a lie as to Iraq, although I do myself believe the World is a better place without Saddam Hussein in power,

In fact near the whole of Parliament didn't listen to those demonstrating against the invasion and I firmly believe, without a lie or with a lie, no matter which party was in Govt, Labour or Conservative that we would have still supported the US led invasion of Iraq and the results would have been the same probably.
I do though agree, we were likely taken into that conflict and action by being misled by the PM of the day,namely Tony Blair.

Which was ridiculous anyway because no way would the then opposition Conservative party gone against the requests of a Republican President of the USA either.
So the vote would have been won in any event to go to war as to Iraq.

[Kizzy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2477023.stm

Investigations revealed the gun was part of "Project Babylon", the brainchild of Canadian Dr Gerald Bull, who was assassinated shortly before the parts were discovered.

In April 1990 two men - a scientist and a director of the company Walter Somers company - were charged in connection with the "supergun".

However, charges against them were withdrawn suddenly and without explanation in November.

In 1991 after Iraq's defeat in the Gulf War United Nations weapons inspectors working in the country destroyed two "superguns".

A 1992 report on the affair concluded the government had known more about Project Babylon than it had admitted.

British Ambassador's likely return

9. The FCO is concerned that Walker's return to Baghdad has been caught up with factors extraneous to his recall. Originally scheduled to return on April 16, his departure was delayed first by news of the interception of nuclear triggers and now by the supergun controversy. The FCO told us (please protect) that Saudi Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar had convinced "the highest levels of the Government," i.e., Mrs. Thatcher, that British Ambassador Walker should not return unless the Iraqis cede something on British detainees. Otherwise the British move would be perceived as caving in to Iraq. Bandar reportedly pledged to seek to convince Saddam Hussein to make some gesture on one of the two long-term British detainees – Daphne Parish (who was sentenced to fifteen years for spying in connection with the Bazoft affair) or Ian Richter (who is serving a life sentence). The FCO believes the possibility of such a gesture is close to nil.

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/109446

(Margaret Thatcher made the seemly applications for clemency, and the incident certainly strained the countries’ relationship. But the Tory government would later be embarrassed by revelations that, before and even after Bazoft’s hanging, it was pushing for closer trade relations and helping British firms skirt the law to ship Baghdad the weapons it would use against British troops in the coming Gulf War.)

http://www.executedtoday.com/tag/daphne-parish/

Here is some Thatcher related information for those who are interested in it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Omah

You didn't get the right to vote just because those with wealth and power thought the masses should join their club .....

As many as 15 "protesters" were killed and 700 injured at Peterloo, where a crowd of 60,000–80,000 (including many women) had gathered to demand the reform of parliamentary representation, by the sabre, bayonet, ball and hoof of the Manchester and Salford Yeomanry .....

I don't know what this post has to do with anything I said, and I didn't need the history lesson.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2477023.stm

Investigations revealed the gun was part of "Project Babylon", the brainchild of Canadian Dr Gerald Bull, who was assassinated shortly before the parts were discovered.

In April 1990 two men - a scientist and a director of the company Walter Somers company - were charged in connection with the "supergun".

However, charges against them were withdrawn suddenly and without explanation in November.

In 1991 after Iraq's defeat in the Gulf War United Nations weapons inspectors working in the country destroyed two "superguns".

A 1992 report on the affair concluded the government had known more about Project Babylon than it had admitted.

British Ambassador's likely return

9. The FCO is concerned that Walker's return to Baghdad has been caught up with factors extraneous to his recall. Originally scheduled to return on April 16, his departure was delayed first by news of the interception of nuclear triggers and now by the supergun controversy. The FCO told us (please protect) that Saudi Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar had convinced "the highest levels of the Government," i.e., Mrs. Thatcher, that British Ambassador Walker should not return unless the Iraqis cede something on British detainees. Otherwise the British move would be perceived as caving in to Iraq. Bandar reportedly pledged to seek to convince Saddam Hussein to make some gesture on one of the two long-term British detainees – Daphne Parish (who was sentenced to fifteen years for spying in connection with the Bazoft affair) or Ian Richter (who is serving a life sentence). The FCO believes the possibility of such a gesture is close to nil.

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/109446

(Margaret Thatcher made the seemly applications for clemency, and the incident certainly strained the countries’ relationship. But the Tory government would later be embarrassed by revelations that, before and even after Bazoft’s hanging, it was pushing for closer trade relations and helping British firms skirt the law to ship Baghdad the weapons it would use against British troops in the coming Gulf War.)

http://www.executedtoday.com/tag/daphne-parish/

I get the feeling this was aimed at me, but without any kind of comment, it's hard to say.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Livia

I believe in people's right to protest, but I'm not sure it ever achieves anything.

Originally Posted by Omah

You didn't get the right to vote just because those with wealth and power thought the masses should join their club .....

As many as 15 "protesters" were killed and 700 injured at Peterloo, where a crowd of 60,000–80,000 (including many women) had gathered to demand the reform of parliamentary representation, by the sabre, bayonet, ball and hoof of the Manchester and Salford Yeomanry .....

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't know what this post has to do with anything I said, and I didn't need the history lesson.

Obviously you do, if you're "not sure it (protesting) ever achieves anything" .....

If it weren't for the "protests" of people who were victims of the 1819 Peterloo Massacre or who took part in the Trafalgar Square/Hyde Park demonstrations of 1866-1867 or the hunger strikes of imprisoned suffragettes you wouldn't be enfranchised or perhaps even alive today - this would be a different world .....

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I got myself new Nikes and a hd tv during the riots

-snitches-

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I get the feeling this was aimed at me, but without any kind of comment, it's hard to say.

It's just information, not aimed at anyone in particular really.
I will add a comment if you like?

[MTVN]

It was really the contribution of women during wwi that clinched the decision to give them the vote, even a lot of female suffrage activists at the time disapproved of the militancy of the suffragettes. Its also a bit of a fallacy really that violent protest is the only way to change anything, historically peaceful protest has been far more successful

[Omah]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It was really the contribution of women during wwi that clinched the decision to give them the vote, even a lot of female suffrage activists at the time disapproved of the militancy of the suffragettes.

Of course, the history of enfranchisement is long and complex but one has to differentiate between the giants and those who stand on their shoulders.

Its also a bit of a fallacy really that violent protest is the only way to change anything, historically peaceful protest has been far more successful

OTOH :

Its also a bit of a fallacy really that peaceful protest is the only way to change anything, historically violent protest has been far more successful