[cassieparis]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

I had no idea he was mixed race until an hour ago, and I forgot. It wasn't intentional. Do we really need to play the PC card and assume I was trying to dismiss "his white heritage"? Sorry for not thoroughly vetting his bio before posting. Perhaps a formal warning should be issued to me as I am clearly a gigantic racist.

When you refer to him as black in this context it totally changes the meaning of your whole argument. Hence my question.
There nothing PC about it. I'm trying to follow your logic & the facts.
If Daley is Black and Jemima believes him to be Black as you did, why did she make a statement that she isn't attracted to black guys but attracted to mixed guys like Daley?
Daley is mixed race. Jemima knows this as do you now. This isn't PC it's simple fact

[MatthewS]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Tbf her warning was for potentially offensive language, not racism.

It was only Gina who cried racism immediately. Even before anything even slightly dodgy was said.

Good point.

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

I employ dark skinned guys, not black guys.
I'm friends with dark-skinned guys, not black guys.
I like dark skinned guys, not black guys.

Great examples of racist comments. I don't feel Jemimas was made under the same context however. We're obviously not going to agree. Which is fine.

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

People can be racist without intending malice, but these prejudices can never be addressed until they are highlighted.

Bravo and well said... and that was the point. Gina even said herself 'I think I just experienced racism' in a questioning way cause she wasnt sure herself but it felt wrong to her. And when you heard BB read out the transcript it didn't go down well the way she said it. Lets put it this way would Jemima be comfortable repeating that conversation to a room full of african or Caribbean people?? No probably not... well guess what she potentially/likely did just that cause shes on TV.

[MatthewS]

Originally Posted by cassieparis

When you refer to him as black in this context it totally changes the meaning of your whole argument. Hence my question.
There nothing PC about it. I'm trying to follow your logic & the facts.
If Daley is Black and Jemima believes him to be Black as you did, why did she make a statement that she isn't attracted to black guys but attracted to mixed guys like Daley?
Daley is mixed race. Jemima knows this as do you now. This isn't PC it's simple fact

LOL

Can't believe you're pressing me on this. I told you in my earlier post, I had no idea he was mixed race until an hour ago, and when I was writing my reply where I referenced him as black, it slipped my mind. I run a small business and am doing multiple things here while popping in and out of the forum, it was a general oversight, I don't vet my posts before replying. Maybe I should? Instead of just correcting me and pointing out he is indeed mixed race, your initial reaction is to inquire why I'm attempting to dismiss "his white heritage". That was an assumption.

[cassieparis]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

LOL

Can't believe you're pressing me on this. I told you in my earlier post, I had no idea he was mixed race until an hour ago, and when I was writing my reply where I referenced him as black, it slipped my mind. I run a small business and am doing multiple things here while popping in and out of the forum, it was a general oversight, I don't vet my posts before replying. Maybe I should? Instead of just correcting me and pointing out he is indeed mixed race, your initial reaction is to inquire why I'm attempting to dismiss "his white heritage". That was an assumption.

You're busy. You forgot. No pressure. No assumption

[MatthewS]

Lolz

I should have learned from the Markus - Sree thread a few years back that anything race related is just problematic in general ...

[Fish_Fingers]

Some of you people have no idea about how the real world works. Whether you like it or not, people WILL judge you on your appearance. Whether you or tall or short, young or old, male or female, attractive or ugly, disabled or not, black or white, have long hair or short hair.... people will form opinions of you based on those things. Hopefully we are getting to a stage when people are not likely to be physically attacked/beaten/spat on/denied services because of those things, but it is simply ridiculous to attempt to police people's thoughts on these issues as the PC brigade would wish.

[jet]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

So because she typically finds herself dating "dark skinned" men, who happen not to be 'black', you've somehow deducted that she generally views black people as an inferior race? Even though she'd be after Daley if he were single? Surely you see how that's a massive stretch....

Their are numerous definitions for racism btw, it's a controversial term and you won't find one 'right' answer. It's also extremely context dependent. Maybe Jemima is a racist, who knows, I'm just saying that in this particular system 1) race wasn't the basis of her comments and 2) she's allowed to have a physical preference as to what she's attracted to. I've never dated an aboriginal girl in my life. If someone asked me what 'type' I usually date, and I was stupid enough to reply "dark skinned, but not aboriginal", would I be a racist?

You would be if the person you were talking to was aboriginal and you assumed they wouldn't date a white person, and told them so.
I have to laugh at how that one comment of J's is continually ignored and the rest of the conversation is used (which isn't relevant) to cloud the issue.
The 'you wouldn't date a white man' is the ONLY part of the convo which showed J was racist, and that is continually pointed out. Why bring up the irrelevant and not address the real elephant in the room? Eh?

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by Fish_Fingers

Some of you people have no idea about how the real world works. Whether you like it or not, people WILL judge you on your appearance. Whether you or tall or short, young or old, male or female, attractive or ugly, disabled or not, black or white, have long hair or short hair.... people will form opinions of you based on those things. Hopefully we are getting to a stage when people are not likely to be physically attacked/beaten/spat on/denied services because of those things, but it is simply ridiculous to attempt to police people's thoughts on these issues as the PC brigade would wish.

If only Martin Luther King, the Suffragettes and all those other wistful PC-Brigade Marching Band Dreamers shared your insight....

When we cease to try to better ourselves, our only option is decline.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jet

You would be if the person you were talking to was aboriginal and you assumed they wouldn't date a white person, and told them so.
I have to laugh at how that one comment of J's is continually ignored and the rest of the conversation is used (which isn't relevant) to cloud the issue.
The 'you wouldn't date a white man' is the ONLY part of the convo which showed J was racist, and that is continually pointed out. Why bring up the irrelevant and not address the real elephant in the room? Eh?

I agree that thats the only questionable part of what she said. However Gina had already decided she was racist before she said this.

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I agree that thats the only questionable part of what she said. However Gina had already decided she was racist before she said this.

Jemima's earlier statement set off my own alarm bells about the basis for her race preference, and I, like Gina would have questioned further, and in this case, had my suspicions confirmed. The assumption about Gina is indefensible, surely?

[MatthewS]

I think even Jemima would accept the "you probably woundn't date a white man" comment might have been pushing it.

Even then though, it's not like that absolutely shows that jemina views other races as inferior to her own. It's certainly poor taste but I mean, do we think it's safe to assume that most races date within their own race? And if so, is acknowledging that someone "probably" wouldn't date someone that's outside of their race really such a reach? Or is it logical? Obviously you shouldn't say that to person in question, but I'm just commenting on the general idea...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

Jemima's earlier statement set off my own alarm bells about the basis for her race preference, and I, like Gina would have questioned further, and in this case, had my suspicions confirmed. The assumption about Gina is indefensible, surely?

I dont think it is 'indefensible' really no. Of course none of us know what Jemima was thinking, but as I have stated a few times, I think she was panicking after being branded a racist and was desperately trying to explain what she had originally meant..and ended up blurting out something ridiculous like she did.

[Fish_Fingers]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

If only Martin Luther King, the Suffragettes and all those other wistful PC-Brigade Marching Band Dreamers shared your insight....

When we cease to try to better ourselves, our only option is decline.

They fought against real discrimination. I don't think Martin Luther King would have been particularly concerned with what type of people an old sea hag like Jemima was attracted to.

[jet]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

But can't we just deem it an 'offensive' remark and something stupid to have said in hindsight, especially given the context that it's on national television - without having to automatically slap the racist card on her? Sure, maybe subliminally something else is going on and she actually is a racist, but until she actually make comments that specifically reveal she views other races as inferior, we're assuming.

Good point, MatthewS. Perhaps 'offensive' is more appropriate than 'racist'. Your point of view says 'give her the benefit of the doubt without excusing her' and it's by far the best post I've read on this issue today. It made me reconsider. Wonderful stuff.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jet

Good point, MatthewS. Perhaps 'offensive' is more appropriate than 'racist'. Your point of view says 'give her the benefit of the doubt without excusing her' and it's by far the best post I've read on this issue today. It made me reconsider. Wonderful stuff.

BB seem to agree with that view too. Since her warning was not for being racist but because what she said could be deemed offensive.

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

I think even Jemima would accept the "you probably woundn't date a white man" comment might have been pushing it.

Even then though, it's not like that absolutely shows that jemina views other races as inferior to her own. It's certainly poor taste but I mean, do we think it's safe to assume that most races date within their own race? And if so, is acknowledging that someone "probably" wouldn't date someone that's outside of their race really such a reach? Or is it logical? Obviously you shouldn't say that to person in question, but I'm just commenting on the general idea...

I do get why it may seem that her innocent faux-pas is being beaten to death, but it is quite a topical issue at present and changing a generation's perspective has to start with changing an individual's perspective. Interracial relationships have been fought for, and there has been significant sacrifice to challenge engraved opposition. You used the term "acknowledging", which I would have no issue with, but in Jemima's case, she was assuming, which has a more negative connotation. Take for example the racist tide of hatred spurred by the recent cheerios ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OtFRFgqHto

[jet]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I agree that thats the only questionable part of what she said. However Gina had already decided she was racist before she said this.

I know that, and I think Gina was out of order at that early point. I'm not going now by what Gina decided though - I'm going by whether J ultimately deserved to be warned by BB - and I think they did have to warn her because of the 'you wouldn't date a white man' remark. Maybe BB should have made it clearer which part of the conversation they were cautioning her about?

[Sun Tzu.]

Jamina didn't help herself with the white comment. To be honest she just came across as thick and not able to articulate her position properly. Gina realised, latched onto it and used it to try and get her out.

But it was blown out of proportion. She used generalizing to form her argument which isn't good.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Fish_Fingers

Some of you people have no idea about how the real world works. Whether you like it or not, people WILL judge you on your appearance. Whether you or tall or short, young or old, male or female, attractive or ugly, disabled or not, black or white, have long hair or short hair.... people will form opinions of you based on those things. Hopefully we are getting to a stage when people are not likely to be physically attacked/beaten/spat on/denied services because of those things, but it is simply ridiculous to attempt to police people's thoughts on these issues as the PC brigade would wish.

Here's someone who talks a bit of sense

Very nicely said Fish Fingers

[the truth]

Ive heard people from all races and religions and yes from the so called black community state they only date, marry women and men from within that community....its not called racist then , it may be called narrow minded etc but never racist....but if a white person says anything on the topic here its racist? I think you have to look at the intention too, for example the whole jade v shilpa gate whilst going way over the top was bullying (probably not racism) she was being a bitch and using shilpas ethnicity to try and bully her with her groupies

the word racism is a very strong one and is not applicable here at all

however, a poster mentions disabled issues. I think that's a whole thoroughly more difficult more complex multi faceted issue that society hasn't even got close to addressing properly

[the truth]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

I do get why it may seem that her innocent faux-pas is being beaten to death, but it is quite a topical issue at present and changing a generation's perspective has to start with changing an individual's perspective. Interracial relationships have been fought for, and there has been significant sacrifice to challenge engraved opposition. You used the term "acknowledging", which I would have no issue with, but in Jemima's case, she was assuming, which has a more negative connotation. Take for example the racist tide of hatred spurred by the recent cheerios ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OtFRFgqHto

not sure its that black and white (pun intended), maybe she simply formed this opinion about gina not the entire black community?

[Elrond Hubbard]

Originally Posted by MatthewS

Lolz

I should have learned from the Markus - Sree thread a few years back that anything race related is just problematic in general ...

Not really.

Sree was just a gigantic eff-wit.

[Elrond Hubbard]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

BB seem to agree with that view too. Since her warning was not for being racist but because what she said could be deemed offensive.

It's not that long until Minority Report, is it?

Friggin scary!!!

[sampvt]

Racism is getting out of control, or should I say, what people perceive racism to be is getting out of control. It is getting so we cant even mention preferences without some Blacks jumping on the band wagon. They can say anything to us like your skin is pasty and needs sun or your redness is laughable.....would we get away with commenting on their skin colour, straight hair extensions and or the colour of the makeup they use.

Seems to me that those coloured people that use blond wigs or extensions, use pasty makeup to make them look lighter and effectively try to go whiter are the very people that seem to be ashamed of their own colour or even race and have no rights to play the race card for such an innoxious comment like Jemima made.

I am defo not racist but I am against racism that is used to gain an advantage in life. Gina seems to think she is above everyone and dresses and tries to look more European than her other friends. This looks to me like she isn't all that comfortable in her own skin colour yet she champions the black racism issue to such a degree that its laughable.