[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..of course they're not aware of everyone's mental state but they're not responsible for it either, unfortunately people won't always say kind things otherwise there wouldn't be a discussion forum..yes, there are some cruel people who will contribute misery, whether it be on here or real life..they are the minority though and certainly on here, that's why you see the names on the ban list if they go too far..

They're not responsible for it, but they can quite easily stop themselves from exacerbating the problem, when there is absolutely no need to do so. This is meant to be a friendly discussion forum for people with the same interests, and largely that is exactly what it is. I've seen people make disgusting comments and threads on here and nothing happens, the next day they are still here spouting their bile.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

They're not responsible for it, but they can quite easily stop themselves from exacerbating the problem, when there is absolutely no need to do so. This is meant to be a friendly discussion forum for people with the same interests, and largely that is exactly what it is. I've seen people make disgusting comments and threads on here and nothing happens, the next day they are still here spouting their bile.

..but you don't know nothing happens though, you're not privy to admin so you can't really say that..and also what to you might be seen as very insulting to a HM isn't necessarily breaking a forum rule because we are also here to discuss good and bad about the housemates and even they know that..of course you're going to get silly people, you do in any area of life..

..also what one person might think of as unacceptable isn't the same for everyone..I've seen some really cruel things about HMs said here in BB season but I've also seen some people being cruel about one aspect they find offensive and yet join in with something else cruel that they don't see offensive because it's not a HM they like...if anything breaks a rule and you report it then something will be done about it..but if it doesn't then unfortunately you have to try to ignore it and concentrate on your own opinions and the posters opinions you want to discuss..one of the worst things on here is attacking a member personally for their opinion on a HM unless they're obvious trolls, who won't find they're time on here very lengthy..

[Marmalite]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

I was thinking about the girl who went on ask fm and got attacked so much she hung herself. Whilst i'm pretty sure those people were just making throwaway comments as some on here do, you do not know what someones mental state is when they're reading a comment on a forum. Be it about big brother or mechanical engineering.

As i've said many times, take for example a 20 stone, friendless lonely girl who has found solace in big brother. She logs onto a forum to discuss her new found interest and is hit in the face with a 20 page thread making fun of fat people.

If you cannot see how those two situations relate, then the debate is over.

I disagree, they don't relate and giving a view (whether negative and abusive) about a contender on BB on a forum (or online) directly relating to BB show and the HM's is not bullying.

Your example of a fat girl going onto a forum and seeing a 20 page thread about fat people is not bullying either as the thread and posts are not directed at her or about her. If she had an avitar of herself and people started posting insults about her and her weight then yes, that would be a form of cyber bullying.

People throw the word "bully" around far to much and too quickly nowadays. The BB housemates and their family are fully aware of what goes on with the viewers and public so should by now be able to ignore it. If not, then they should never have entered in the first place. Besides they and their family would've been warned and coached on how to handle the insults and negativity beforehand anyway.

However, once BB is over and they continue on with their lives and if they start to receive abuse and threats via their facebook or twitter etc then yes it would be a form of cyber bullying.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Marmalite

I disagree, they don't relate and giving a view (whether negative and abusive) about a contender on BB on a forum (or online) directly relating to BB show and the HM's is not bullying.

Your example of a fat girl going onto a forum and seeing a 20 page thread about fat people is not bullying either as the thread and posts are not directed at her or about her. If she had an avitar of herself and people started posting insults about her and her weight then yes, that would be a form of cyber bullying.

People throw the word "bully" around far to much and too quickly nowadays. The BB housemates and their family are fully aware of what goes on with the viewers and public so should by now be able to ignore it. If not, then they should never have entered in the first place. Besides they and their family would've been warned and coached on how to handle the insults and negativity beforehand anyway.

However, once BB is over and they continue on with their lives and if they start to receive abuse and threats via their facebook or twitter etc then yes it would be a form of cyber bullying.

If a person with said problem is able to relate to the person being criticized for their physical appearance. Of course it will effect them. Its bullying by proxy.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but you don't know nothing happens though, you're not privy to admin so you can't really say that..and also what to you might be seen as very insulting to a HM isn't necessarily breaking a forum rule because we are also here to discuss good and bad about the housemates and even they know that..of course you're going to get silly people, you do in any area of life..

..also what one person might think of as unacceptable isn't the same for everyone..I've seen some really cruel things about HMs said here in BB season but I've also seen some people being cruel about one aspect they find offensive and yet join in with something else cruel that they don't see offensive because it's not a HM they like...if anything breaks a rule and you report it then something will be done about it..but if it doesn't then unfortunately you have to try to ignore it and concentrate on your own opinions and the posters opinions you want to discuss..one of the worst things on here is attacking a member personally for their opinion on a HM unless they're obvious trolls, who won't find they're time on here very lengthy..

I've read the faq, rules and so on. I've also been around forums a long time. So I have a pretty good idea how these things work. In the month i've been here I don't recall one person that received an instant ban, for things that in my eyes it was the only course of action.

They receive 'infractions' instead. Which whilst a good idea I don't think really works for every situation. Example: The people that create the threads i'm talking about receive infractions for it, I received an infraction yesterday for calling someone John Tickle. Its like giving everybody a suspended sentence whether they've stolen a bag of crisps or murdered someone.

I've also been around forums long enough to know that you don't question moderator egos. So i'm gonna bail out now.

[Marmalite]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

If a person with said problem is able to relate to the person being criticized for their physical appearance. Of course it will effect them. Its bullying by proxy.

What???

If a person with said problem can "relate" and then deliberately continus to read negative posts, then all they need to do is stop reading them and not go into the forum.

How the hell do you associate peoples negative and sometimes rude opinions on a forum about a contender in a reality tv game show, with someone who has deliberately gone onto a forum and then reads said negative and abusive posts as bullying???

They are completely different and, although I agree that the comments may affect them, it is in no way bullying towards them.

[karezza]

The Big Brother producers are the real bullies. They stirred up Callum/Dexter & Gina/Hazel antagonisms.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

I've read the faq, rules and so on. I've also been around forums a long time. So I have a pretty good idea how these things work. In the month i've been here I don't recall one person that received an instant ban, for things that in my eyes it was the only course of action.They receive 'infractions' instead. Which whilst a good idea I don't think really works for every situation. Example: The people that create the threads i'm talking about receive infractions for it, I received an infraction yesterday for calling someone John Tickle. Its like giving everybody a suspended sentence whether they've stolen a bag of crisps or murdered someone.

I've also been around forums long enough to know that you don't question moderator egos. So i'm gonna bail out now.

..in your eyes maybe but that doesn't mean it warrants an instant ban, just that you've taken particular offence to it, in my experience on this forum, obvious trolls who have no interest in discussing BB, but just being offensive to either HMs or forum members won't find their time on here very long..but yeah, I don't really want to discuss specific bans/infractions etc, that's for you to discuss with a mod if you think it's unfair...

..as for the scenario of the 'fat girl'...I think it can also be said and especially on this type of forum that she would join and find people who relate to her as well and make friends and find comfort and understanding that she might not find in her real life..maybe she's not confident to go out at all, so the internet and forums make her feel less isolated and can give a lot of positives to her..yeah, she has to read cruel things but she'll also read some very supportive things as well and as I said, especially on a small moderated forum which will prevent an 'onslaught' of cruelty which happens on twitter/facebook etc...I think like everything in life it's double sided and members can gain a lot of understanding from other forum members and meet people with similar worries to their own...you do have to take that into consideration as well..and whatever you believe, honestly 'trolls' will be dealt with...

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Marmalite

What???

If a person with said problem can "relate" and then deliberately continus to read negative posts, then all they need to do is stop reading them and not go into the forum.

How the hell do you associate peoples negative and sometimes rude opinions on a forum about a contender in a reality tv game show, with someone who has deliberately gone onto a forum and then reads said negative and abusive posts as bullying???

They are completely different and, although I agree that the comments may affect them, it is in no way bullying towards them.

Again, for a rational person that would be the sensible thing to do. But as the ask fm case shows, not everyone is able to do that. That particular case resulted in a childs death. She wasnt bullied?

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

Again, for a rational person that would be the sensible thing to do. But as the ask fm case shows, not everyone is able to do that. That particular case resulted in a childs death. She wasnt bullied?

Yes she was bullied. She had comments directed at her personally and these resulted in her killing herself. It is awfully sad and the perpetrators of that abuse are responsible for her death and in my mind these cowardly keyboard warriors should be found and prosecuted.

You cannot curb all peoples opinions on a forum in case someone logs on and reads something they don't want to about someone else though. As its been said, anything directed personally at a member is dealt with but we are allowed some freedom of speech surely?

[Marmalite]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

Again, for a rational person that would be the sensible thing to do. But as the ask fm case shows, not everyone is able to do that. That particular case resulted in a childs death. She wasnt bullied?

OK seriously you are starting to irriate me now.

She was attacked and abused directly. Eg. the attacks and bullying she read was directed at her and at her only!!!

She was not reading comments and abuse that others were posting about someone taking part in a ****ing reality tv show!

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by anniek76

Yes she was bullied. She had comments directed at her personally and these resulted in her killing herself. It is awfully sad and the perpetrators of that abuse are responsible for her death and in my mind these cowardly keyboard warriors should be found and prosecuted.

You cannot curb all peoples opinions on a forum in case someone logs on and reads something they don't want to about someone else though. As its been said, anything directed personally at a member is dealt with but we are allowed some freedom of speech surely?

Freedom of speech does not extend to hurling personal abuse at people.

Originally Posted by Marmalite

OK seriously you are starting to irriate me now.

She was attacked and abused directly. Eg. the attacks and bullying she read was directed at her and at her only!!!

She was not reading comments and abuse that others were posting about someone taking part in a ****ing reality tv show!

Put me on ignore then before you have a coronary. Or take your own advice and ignore it. Not that easy though is it?

[Ammi]

..it also has to be said that although it's extremely sad about Hannah, no one knows what her mental state before that was either..I'm sure the comments of trolls contributed and it's completely wrong and has to be addressed but we don't know the entire story of other things...and comparing a large unregulated site with a small regulated reality show forum isn't really the same thing at all...

[Marmalite]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

Put me on ignore then before you have a coronary. Or take your own advice and ignore it. Not that easy though is it?

Oh that's a really mature response!

Or is that your witty comeback when you realise you were completely wrong in your definition and example?

[Verbal]

Line crossed

Point proven

Thanks for playing

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

Freedom of speech does not extend to hurling personal abuse at people.


Put me on ignore then before you have a coronary. Or take your own advice and ignore it. Not that easy though is it?

..no it doesn't and there are people who confuse freedom of speech with being insulting/offensive/cruel...on a site like this anyone who 'hurls abuse' and shows no interest in debating will be dealt with but not necessarily just for causing offense if they haven't broken any rules...

..it also has to be said that 'two wrongs don't make a right' and I have also seen members attacked personally for their opinion because a member finds it offensive, rather than reporting it...otherwise, they're really no better than the people they find insulting...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

Line crossed

Point proven

Thanks for playing

..so this is a game...baiting..?...

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..so this is a game...baiting..?...

I was referring to marmite man not you Ammi. He told me to ignore it, don't read it etc. when he clearly is not capable of doing that himself.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..so this is a game...baiting..?...

But yes it was. It was a means to an end. It served its purpose.

[Marmalite]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

I was referring to marmite man not you Ammi. He told me to ignore it, don't read it etc. when he clearly is not capable of doing that himself.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

But yes it was. It was a means to an end. It served its purpose.

..then it's breaking a rule, which is what you've said you feel others do and don't get punished..?...the problem is that people often get offended by something and then react by doing the same thing and somehow feel 'justified'..but who is to say that other person didn't make their comment because they felt 'justified' as well..as I've said before if something is obvious trolling to provoke reactions then they won't find their time here easy or long...

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..then it's breaking a rule, which is what you've said you feel others do and don't get punished..?...the problem is that people often get offended by something and then react by doing the same thing and somehow feel 'justified'..but who is to say that other person didn't make their comment because they felt 'justified' as well..as I've said before if something is obvious trolling to provoke reactions then they won't find their time here easy or long...

Then ban me

[Verbal]

Although it does further my point. Which I can barely be bothered to make. over half of the threads on here are trolling threads. You react to it, then they report you for it. Its all a very childish game.

I've reported nobody in this thread btw. Call me what you like, I could not care less.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

Then ban me

..ok, I don't think we're going to agree on this CH but I respect your opinion and I know it's coming from a good place...every BB there are 'harsh' things said because people are quite passionate, of course it's wrong to attack a HM on personal appearances etc..it's wrong to call Hazel a slag/*****..it's wrong to be insulting about the twins' weight, although I feel it's valid to address potential health issues..it's wrong to call Dexter a rat/vermin..wrong to refer to Sam's hearing disability in any derogatory way etc...yeah, I agree they're all wrong in my opinion but that doesn't mean members are necessarily 'bullying' or breaking rules, it's just extremely tacky and if anyone does overstep boundaries, the thing is to report that post...

..anyway, I have nothing left to add, mainly because I have to go out now and I think we've completely derailed this thread, so I'll let it get back on topic...

..it's been a pleasure discussing it with you....

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

Although it does further my point. Which I can barely be bothered to make. over half of the threads on here are trolling threads. You react to it, then they report you for it. Its all a very childish game.

I've reported nobody in this thread btw. Call me what you like, I could not care less.

..most threads just seem to be about members creating a 'spin' on their chosen HM or against one they dislike...that's all part of the pantomime of the whole thing..I do equally see moderators intervening if someone oversteps boundaries..unfortunately there will always be some that do but we can't ignore the majority who are here to discuss their passionate views, which they are entitled to...