[reece(:]

Originally Posted by MrWong

It's usually brought up to derail threads.

It's desperate straw grasping.. if BB found Charlotte to be offensive she would have been warned. Ron was warned for being offensive. That's the valid conclusion.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

Are we really comparing the Holocaust to an ex football manager making a comment about a woman wearing a blanket on a reality tv show? really?

No. But the climate that allowed the rise of fascism included the routine denigration of Jews in comics and on stage and the blaming of Jews for the nation's economic and cultural woes.

Now, I don't think we are in danger of another Third Reich and another holocaust, but I do know that physical attacks and acts of intimidation against muslims in this country have been rising in number for several years.

Words have power. The jokes we tell reflect and help to create the culture we inhabit. Personally, I'd rather the culture I inhabit not be a racist, islamaphobic and anti-semitic one. Guess I'm picky like that.


Good God. It's political correctness gone mad. Mad I tells ya! Mad! Can't tell the old Chalky jokes any more eh? eh? Can't call it a blackboard! No more gollywogs on jam jars. Now they won't let us take the piss out of Abdul for being a bomber. Political correctness gone mad!

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by reece(:

The desperation is blatant.

As is the double standards.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Exactly, those kinds of jokes don't necessarily make the person saying them racist or evil incarnate but as mentioned by someone else in the thread it does add to society's perception of people and emphasises stereotypes so BB was right to pull him up just to say mind your language, watch what you're saying. He accepted it and moved on.

..I think what I find most annoying and worrying is that people try to excuse him for the things he says..Oh it's just Big Ron, he's a good old chap, it's just his way...because it's not acceptable to be his way and how will he ever see that if excuses are made, which you're right..just adds to public perceptions of stereotypes...I accept that people can say things and not always think or mean offence by them but they also have to accept that they can offend and understand why, which is why he had to have the warning..I don't think he's a racist as such but if he's 'unaware or uneducated' then he does have to start to understand and be educated where he keeps making mistakes and saying stupid things...

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

As is the double standards.

As I said, if BB found Charlotte to be offensive, she'd have been warned and she wasn't. So, so much for "my double standards" (another attempt at defending Ron's comments). Ron was warned... undefendable. But keep trying

[MrWong]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

I think not - just pointing out the obvious double standards that people responsible for them don't want to see.

It's spoken about a lot on the forum. So i'm not sure what you're getting at.

This is a thread about Ron's comments.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by reece(:

It's desperate straw grasping.. if BB found Charlotte to be offensive she would have been warned. Ron was warned for being offensive. That's the valid conclusion.

Who said Charlotte was being offensive? It's the ones calling her names because they find her offensive that are being sexist and therefore offensive.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by DanaC

No. But the climate that allowed the rise of fascism included the routine denigration of Jews in comics and on stage and the blaming of Jews for the nation's economic and cultural woes.

Now, I don't think we are in danger of another Third Reich and another holocaust, but I do know that physical attacks and acts of intimidation against muslims in this country have been rising in number for several years.

Words have power. The jokes we tell reflect and help to create the culture we inhabit. Personally, I'd rather the culture I inhabit not be a racist, islamaphobic and anti-semitic one. Guess I'm picky like that.


Good God. It's political correctness gone mad. Mad I tells ya! Mad! Can't tell the old Chalky jokes any more eh? eh? Can't call it a blackboard! No more gollywogs on jam jars. Now they won't let us take the piss out of Abdul for being a bomber. Political correctness gone mad!

Yes Dana that is all well and good, but we are talking about Ron Atkinson in Big Brother. Reality check.

[_catapult_]

Originally Posted by Jamie.

I was gob smacked when he said it. It was racist no matter what way you look at it, it stereotyped Muslims (or religions that wear head scarves) to be a terrorist.

It was definitely justified.

My god somebody save me, it is NOT racist.. further back somebody called it a 'racIAL' comment, and that is at least somewhat accurate - racIAL not racIST ... he made a joke, yes it was a bit inappropriate... maybe he deserved the warning, but you need to keep it in perspective, RACISTS hate black people, they attack people like me in the street, shout n****r at us, do monkey dances around me, do you get the picture? ... it's worlds apart.

Like the poor chick who got kicked out of the house a few series back for using the "n word" in a completely unoffensive way, that was ridiculous, this is ridiculous, and i also agree that all the people screaming him down as racist 'on behalf' of us blacks need to get a life too, please, I won't be rushing to defend random whites on nobody elses behalf and I don't expect anybody else to do it for me!

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Who said Charlotte was being offensive? It's the ones calling her names because they find her offensive that are being sexist and therefore offensive.

So why am I being lambasted for that then, Charlotte is my favourite in the house....

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by reece(:

As I said, if BB found Charlotte to be offensive, she'd have been warned and she wasn't. So, so much for "my double standards" (another attempt at defending Ron's comments). Ron was warned... undefendable. But keep trying

I'm wasting my time - you clearly don't understand what I am saying. For the last time, I did not say Charlotte was being offensive, I said those calling her names for being crude, when they wouldn't do so to a bloke, are the ones being offensive because they are being sexist. I give up.

[DanaC]

We are talking about someone on a tv show making a comment founded on anti-muslim stereotypes. He didn't say it down the pub with his mates.

For God's sake. Talk about an overreaction. he was given a warning by Big Brother. he wasn't hauled down to the station in a ****ing PC wagon.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by reece(:

So why am I being lambasted for that then, Charlotte is my favourite in the house....

Because if I remember rightly, and I maybe wrong, you were one of those calling Hazel names for her behaviour in the house - which is sexist.

[_catapult_]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Good God. It's political correctness gone mad. Mad I tells ya! Mad! Can't tell the old Chalky jokes any more eh? eh? Can't call it a blackboard! No more gollywogs on jam jars. Now they won't let us take the piss out of Abdul for being a bomber. Political correctness gone mad!

Err... are you actually saying that not being able to call it a blackboard.. and removing gollywogs from jam jars were both rational justified actions against racism? They seem like strange examples for the point (I think) you are trying to make..

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

I'm wasting my time - you clearly don't understand what I am saying. For the last time, I did not say Charlotte was being offensive, I said those calling her names for being crude, when they wouldn't do so to a bloke, are the ones being offensive because they are being sexist. I give up.

Very true. But I've seen several people making that point in here on the threads where those sexist complaints are being made.

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Because if I remember rightly, and I maybe wrong, you were one of those calling Hazel names for her behaviour in the house - which is sexist.

Well you remember wrong since Hazel was my favourite in BB14...... deary me.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

I'm wasting my time - you clearly don't understand what I am saying. For the last time, I did not say Charlotte was being offensive, I said those calling her names for being crude, when they wouldn't do so to a bloke, are the ones being offensive because they are being sexist. I give up.

..but what has that got to do with this though, Charlotte is crude in her terminology, I don't think that really can be denied..I would imagine Charlotte would say so herself..it doesn't make her a bad person though, I quite like Charlotte despite her terminology..but she is crude..Jay was crude as well..he wasn't any less crude because he was a guy...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Because if I remember rightly, and I maybe wrong, you were one of those calling Hazel names for her behaviour in the house - which is sexist.

..a lot of people in this thread were fans of Hazel and defended her...

[brucie]

Originally Posted by _catapult_

My god somebody save me, it is NOT racist.. further back somebody called it a 'racIAL' comment, and that is at least somewhat accurate - racIAL not racIST ... he made a joke, yes it was a bit inappropriate... maybe he deserved the warning, but you need to keep it in perspective, RACISTS hate black people, they attack people like me in the street, shout n****r at us, do monkey dances around me, do you get the picture? ... it's worlds apart.

Like the poor chick who got kicked out of the house a few series back for using the "n word" in a completely unoffensive way, that was ridiculous, this is ridiculous, and i also agree that all the people screaming him down as racist 'on behalf' of us blacks need to get a life too, please, I won't be rushing to defend random whites on nobody elses behalf and I don't expect anybody else to do it for me!

has that actually happened?!!?

[user104658]

I know men like Ron and to say that he isn't racist is simply false. The environment he has lived the majority of his life in, and no doubt the world he was raised in, is inherently infused with casual racism. This is just a fact. He doesn't "mean anything by it", no, and probably harbors no hatred (or even dislike) for people of other ethnicities.

It's a type of low-level racism that comes to him as easily as breathing. The type of "joke" you'll hear told over and over in every single old men's bowls club in the country.

It's part of his mindset, through and through. You can't really blame him for it, exactly... like I said, it's the world he was raised in and has lived in for most of his career; it only became "unacceptable" relatively recently.

It certainly isn't harmless, though, regardless of his intentions.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by reece(:

Well you remember wrong since Hazel was my favourite in BB14...... deary me.

In which case I apologise - I thought you were. But that doesn't change the fact that you don't scream sexism at those that do and I think you have overreacted, along with many others, to Ron's comments - when he clearly meant no harm. Intent is everything.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by _catapult_

Err... are you actually saying that not being able to call it a blackboard.. and removing gollywogs from jam jars were both rational justified actions against racism? They seem like strange examples for the point (I think) you are trying to make..

The 'blackboard' thing was one of those 'PC gone mad' things that occasionally used to turn up in newspapers a few years ago. It was an urban myth. Noone was ever banned from calling a blackboard a blackboard.

The Golliwog thing....you think it's overly PC to not want a picture of a toy based on a black servant with overly exaggerated racial features, the name of which became a common insult for black people, on jamjar lids?


Ok.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I know men like Ron and to say that he isn't racist is simply false. The environment he has lived the majority of his life in, and no doubt the world he was raised in, is inherently infused with casual racism. This is just a fact. He doesn't "mean anything by it", no, and probably harbors no hatred (or even dislike) for people of other ethnicities.

It's a type of low-level racism that comes to his as easily as breathing. The type of "joke" you'll hear told over and over in every single old men's bowls club in the country.

It's part of his mindset, through and through. You can't really blame him for it, exactly... like I said, it's the world he was raised in and has lived in for most of his career; it only became "unacceptable" relatively recently.

It certainly isn't harmless, though, regardless of his intentions.

..a really good post, it isn't harmless but I don't think it's intentionally racist either...a warning was given so now he understands and really that should be that...

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I know men like Ron and to say that he isn't racist is simply false. The environment he has lived the majority of his life in, and no doubt the world he was raised in, is inherently infused with casual racism. This is just a fact. He doesn't "mean anything by it", no, and probably harbors no hatred (or even dislike) for people of other ethnicities.

It's a type of low-level racism that comes to him as easily as breathing. The type of "joke" you'll hear told over and over in every single old men's bowls club in the country.

It's part of his mindset, through and through. You can't really blame him for it, exactly... like I said, it's the world he was raised in and has lived in for most of his career; it only became "unacceptable" relatively recently.

It certainly isn't harmless, though, regardless of his intentions.

This. Well said.

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

In which case I apologise - I thought you were. But that doesn't change the fact that you don't scream sexism at those that do and I think you have overreacted, along with many others, to Ron's comments - when he clearly meant no harm. Intent is everything.

Because you know me so well... right?