[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

People do get paid for stuff like that right now

Anyway, lets just cut their hours as we have an endless supply of unemployed due to there being no paid jobs around.

Vicky you are Happy and have Great Kids and a Husband

how can you look at things in this dark way.



Your kids are our Future

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

Vicky you are Happy and have Great Kids and a Husband

how can you look at things in this dark way.



Your kids are our Future

Because I think of others as well as myself. I have friends that are going through the system at the moment, struggling..not sitting eating 6 course meals and drinking fine wine like the papers would have you believe. I have an ill mother in law who cannot leave the house alone(or at all sometimes). She cries when the phone rings and panics with a knock on the door. Yet has been told she is fit to work and will probably have her money stopped any day now for not seeking work that she can't do. Despite working 30 odd years before becoming ill..now people see HER as a scrounger because the daily mail tells them to. I see first hand what this stuff is doing to people and I hate it. I see the dark side in my everyday life, thats how I can look at things that way.

I am also scared of what the country will be like when Skye grows up. I'm not well off..I am comfortable, but I don't have enough money to leave her so that if she falls on hard times, she wont be stuck working fulltime for dole money.

[arista]

OK
Respect to you Vicky

[Cherie]

I really can't understand why they continue to give benefit to people who have paid nothing into the system and just arrived in the country, surely stopping this would be a better start and easier to enforce.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Because I think of others as well as myself. I have friends that are going through the system at the moment, struggling..not sitting eating 6 course meals and drinking fine wine like the papers would have you believe. I have an ill mother in law who cannot leave the house alone(or at all sometimes). She cries when the phone rings and panics with a knock on the door. Yet has been told she is fit to work and will probably have her money stopped any day now for not seeking work that she can't do. Despite working 30 odd years before becoming ill..now people see HER as a scrounger because the daily mail tells them to. I see first hand what this stuff is doing to people and I hate it. I see the dark side in my everyday life, thats how I can look at things that way.

I am also scared of what the country will be like when Skye grows up. I'm not well off..I am comfortable, but I don't have enough money to leave her so that if she falls on hard times, she wont be stuck working fulltime for dole money.

This is my issue too. People often wonder why I get so enraged by schemes like this when "they don't affect me" because I am employed... But the bottom line is, I don't want my girls growing up in a country where slave wages are "ok". And I worry about a world where people are only bothered by injustice when it affects them personally.

I also know that there's no such thing as "secure" these days, unless you have a savings pot that you could live on indefinitely. My best friends dad - a civil engineer of 30 years experience - was recently unemployed for 9 months after unexpectedly losing a £100,000+ per year job. He literally went to work one morning and was told to go home as the company had gone under.

Working 30 hours a week for JSA is obscene. Minimum wage is around 6.50 an hour, JSA is about ,£70 a week... so, getting people to work for 10 hours per week - fine! This is 10 hours of minimum wage work, it's fair enough. but 30 hours for 70 pounds? that's less than £2.50 an hour. it's obscene.

[Kizzy]

What a whitewash!
They go to Wales of all places where unemployment is double, decimated by the loss of coal and steel industry, and interview a kid and an old woman....how is that a stratified sample?
Rubbish! bit surprised at C4 news there.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

People do get paid for stuff like that right now

Anyway, lets just cut their hours as we have an endless supply of unemployed due to there being no paid jobs around.

I know they do, but not for much longer my guess those doing it atm will be made redundant.
It's just really sad, I worry for the future too due to this it seems to very quickly becoming impossible to have a secure job and a wage that enables you to do anything but exist day to day.

[Vicky.]

Sad reality of this...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I know they do, but not for much longer my guess those doing it atm will be made redundant.
It's just really sad, I worry for the future too due to this it seems to very quickly becoming impossible to have a secure job and a wage that enables you to do anything but exist day to day.

Didn't you know? Our purpose in life is to be cogs in q machine designed to prop up the lifestyles and bank balances of David Cameron's Eton buddies. Why would we need to do anything more than live hand to mouth? Of course some of us will need to paid a little more so that we can afford to run cars and such. How else will we drive to work? But other than that, all we really need to be able to afford is a roof over our heads so that we don't die too quickly, and mass produced cheap junk foods to keep us plod plod plodding along.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by arista

There are not Jobs around at this time. (but soon they will come)
So cleaning a river
is better than slacking.


Its Not Demonizing
Never mind the daily mail
check every news (TV and Radio) on the Hour.


Feel The Force.

If there aren't jobs around at this time why are you assuming that people who can't find jobs are slackers...as opposed to people who cannot find jobs because there aren't any around at this time?

If cleaning a river is better than slacking, why not pay people to do it?

If the rivers need cleaning...and there is a pool of unemployed people to do the job - then pay them a fair wage to do it.



God it's so ****ing depressing. We are voluntarily and with eyes wide open removing all the safety nets and systems put in place across several generations. And the class that most need them (maybe not this moment, but life can throw a spanner in the works at any time) are baying for more cuts.

None of this is in the interests of the country as a whole. It benefits the employer class only. That's it. If there are no safety nets in place, if the idea of being out of work is so horrifying and scary that it keeps you awake at night, then you will suck it up when your boss treats you like ****. You'll take every deprivation, every zero hour contract, every pay freeze, every unpaid hour of overtime, every employer abuse and stay silent. No strikes, no standing up for yourself, no agitating for better conditions.

The tory dream has nothing to do with making this country better for the masses. Anybody with an income below £100k per year and without property, stocks and shares who votes for this **** is just a turkey voting for Christmas.

But ohhhhhh no. No, we can't bear the unfairness of our tax money paying for shirkers and skivers and curtain tuggers, and single mums and families who decided to have too many children. Oh how unfair, we rail. How unfair. I have to work and I can't have a big house for me andmy two children so why should they have a big house for their six? And how unfair that I have to work and pay tax so that they don't have to.

Jesus ****ing christ people, are we really buying this **** all over again? My God, these same arguments were dragged out over the Poor Tax and the workhouses. Exactly the same. Practically word for word.

I really want to smash something. Or I want to cry. This stuff doesn't just depress me it frightens me. I've spent time unemployed. I may do again. I don't own property, I rent. I have no savings, never had a stable enough income to gather anything together. And my health is intermittently awful. Mum's on a state pension (the lowest kind, as one of that generation of women who ended up on a shared pension with hubby for years before they got divorced), topped up by credits and housing benefits. How long til they shaft her?

I hate them. I hate them so much. And here we are again, with the opinion polls showing support from the working classes for benefit cuts and harsh penalties. Buying the goddamned lie again.

None of this will save the country money. There's the irony. It will, as usual, cost the tax payer more to be cruel than it ever did to be kind.


[eta] It wasn't even the unemployed who broke this country. It wasn't benefits that put us in this situation.

[joeysteele]

I have watched this today and very sadly, being the 2nd last conference before the general election,all I am seeing are Ministers who have learned nothing and clearly listened to no one at all.
Not a single sign of any compassion coming into play at all and George Osborne has to be the most ridiculous speech maker possible.

The 'work' programme for those long term unemployed must be going to add to the welfare bill and also halt in some cases, possible jobs being filled by using the cheaper way as to the unemployed for some things to be done by them.
There will surely have to be extra paid to them to cover expenses at the very least and for me it is an admission of failure as to their already worn out and poor attempts at getting people into work.
Sadly,pathetic Osborne just doesn't seem to get it, people cannot get into work when there are not the vacancies, so stop punishing them for business and Govt failures.

I really also had to switch off finally when Theresa May was on, what utter tripe this woman talks, she is the most useless Home secrertary we have likely ever had.
I am for one,really glad that my back is now firmly turned against this Govt. I would feel shame if I was still a supporter of them.
Awful and opinionated with no real credible policies left,even daring to have to admit that it will take another term to sort the Country out.
That was what they said in 2010 that they needed a full term to sort the deficit out.
In other words then, we have hardly progressed at all since 2010 despite all their policies.

Also finally, if the economic recovery is starting to really get going, it is in my view, despite this Govt. not because of it.

[King Gizzard]

Agree with what most have said, the most annoying thing is that it's another cheap gimmick to win votes just as the porn filter thing was. Both very easy targets for easy votes

Why is this their main plan when JSA only accounts for 3% of all benefits/welfare? It's just so cheap and easy to pick on the long term unemployed. We all know it's the banks that need sorting out but most of Tory funding comes from that so they'll just pick on the NHS and the welfare state

I don't even have political allegiances but the Tories properly **** me off

[Nedusa]

I hear that the Tories are going to force the long term unemployed to do work so they can earn their benefit ...??? They are going to force these people either to sign on every day or pick up litter clean the riverbanks etc.

This is so spiteful it almost beggars belief, the only group of people who have to carry out this sort of work are convicted criminals doing community service, so now the long term unemployed are being criminalised...!!!

There must be a more constructive way to help the LT unemployed not to just humiliate them in this way. The Tory party can rot and burn in hell as far as I'm concerned, a party of the rich for the rich, while the rest of us can just go and fcuk ourselves...!!!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I hear that the Tories are going to force the long term unemployed to do work so they can earn their benefit ...??? They are going to force these people either to sign on every day or pick up litter clean the riverbanks etc.

This is so spiteful it almost beggars belief, the only group of people who have to carry out this sort of work are convicted criminals doing community service, so now the long term unemployed are being criminalised...!!!

There must be a more constructive way to help the LT unemployed not to just humiliate them in this way. The Tory party can rot and burn in hell as far as I'm concerned, a party of the rich for the rich, while the rest of us can just go and fcuk ourselves...!!!

There are better ways to help the long term unemployed,you are so right Nedusa.
Sadly I believe now this Govt just looks for ways to suppress, humiliate and blame the weakest in society for all the ills the Country has and is setting out to make them pay more for those ills than those who are much stronger and able to.

Every policy now has no compassion whatsoever and is just anothjer blow from a sledgehammer to theose weakest and poorest.
A total disgrace and more shame on the Lib Dems for allowing this to happen too.

[Vicky.]

A better way of helping the unemployed get back into work is to allow them to do (relevant) training courses.

A friend of mine has been laid off quite recently. He has been unemployed for about 6 months and tbh I dont see him getting a job in the near future, despite trying. He asked if he could go on a college course to better his chances of finding work as he has no proper qualifications or anything(wanted to do bricklaying/plumbing/a decent trade). He was told if he did, his money would be stopped as being on the course would mean he couldn't look for work enough. Yet working 30 hours a week for free...is fine?

He kept pushing for this course mind. And they have now sent him on one of those useless CV courses instead. That helps noone and just wastes time :S

In short, a 20 hour a week college course would mean he wasnt entitled to JSA as he couldn't look for work, despite it bettering his job prospects. But a 30 hour a week CV building course (when it takes about an hour to do a CV) is fine. And apparently fulltime workfare or this new idea would be fine too.

Something massively wrong with that IMO.

And honestly, I wouldnt bother with the long term unemployed who dont want to work. Why stress about them when there are millions of unemployed who DO want to work? I know its wrong to think like that, but we will never have 100% employment, or even close.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I hear that the Tories are going to force the long term unemployed to do work so they can earn their benefit ...??? They are going to force these people either to sign on every day or pick up litter clean the riverbanks etc.

This is so spiteful it almost beggars belief, the only group of people who have to carry out this sort of work are convicted criminals doing community service, so now the long term unemployed are being criminalised...!!!

There must be a more constructive way to help the LT unemployed not to just humiliate them in this way. The Tory party can rot and burn in hell as far as I'm concerned, a party of the rich for the rich, while the rest of us can just go and fcuk ourselves...!!!

That's not true that the only group of people to do this kind of work are those on community payback, there have always been street/parks/waterway cleaners and litter pickers.
It's a dirty, thankless and sometimes dangerous job but it's a necessary one and one worthy of a decent wage.
What is happening is effectively the deconstruction of the 'ordered society' that was the dream of post war Britain. It's going back to enslaving the impoverished masses to the landowners and greedy landlords.
Rats on a wheel going nowhere, slowly.

[arista]

Boris Johnson is Live on TV News

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by DanaC

If there aren't jobs around at this time why are you assuming that people who can't find jobs are slackers...as opposed to people who cannot find jobs because there aren't any around at this time?

If cleaning a river is better than slacking, why not pay people to do it?

If the rivers need cleaning...and there is a pool of unemployed people to do the job - then pay them a fair wage to do it.



God it's so ****ing depressing. We are voluntarily and with eyes wide open removing all the safety nets and systems put in place across several generations. And the class that most need them (maybe not this moment, but life can throw a spanner in the works at any time) are baying for more cuts.

None of this is in the interests of the country as a whole. It benefits the employer class only. That's it. If there are no safety nets in place, if the idea of being out of work is so horrifying and scary that it keeps you awake at night, then you will suck it up when your boss treats you like ****. You'll take every deprivation, every zero hour contract, every pay freeze, every unpaid hour of overtime, every employer abuse and stay silent. No strikes, no standing up for yourself, no agitating for better conditions.

The tory dream has nothing to do with making this country better for the masses. Anybody with an income below £100k per year and without property, stocks and shares who votes for this **** is just a turkey voting for Christmas.

But ohhhhhh no. No, we can't bear the unfairness of our tax money paying for shirkers and skivers and curtain tuggers, and single mums and families who decided to have too many children. Oh how unfair, we rail. How unfair. I have to work and I can't have a big house for me andmy two children so why should they have a big house for their six? And how unfair that I have to work and pay tax so that they don't have to.

Jesus ****ing christ people, are we really buying this **** all over again? My God, these same arguments were dragged out over the Poor Tax and the workhouses. Exactly the same. Practically word for word.

I really want to smash something. Or I want to cry. This stuff doesn't just depress me it frightens me. I've spent time unemployed. I may do again. I don't own property, I rent. I have no savings, never had a stable enough income to gather anything together. And my health is intermittently awful. Mum's on a state pension (the lowest kind, as one of that generation of women who ended up on a shared pension with hubby for years before they got divorced), topped up by credits and housing benefits. How long til they shaft her?

I hate them. I hate them so much. And here we are again, with the opinion polls showing support from the working classes for benefit cuts and harsh penalties. Buying the goddamned lie again.

None of this will save the country money. There's the irony. It will, as usual, cost the tax payer more to be cruel than it ever did to be kind.


[eta] It wasn't even the unemployed who broke this country. It wasn't benefits that put us in this situation.

I agree with all of this, it scares me. for now, I'm employed and we do fine month to month, but we rent, own no property, have no savings... it's a precarious situation no matter how secure your current income is. We have very little to inherit, too. My parents owned a gorgeous detatched 4 bedroom house - then they got divorced when I was 18, sold up, and blew the money on nothing at all so now they both rent . My partners parents own their nice home too but they had her young: they could easily still be alive when we're 70.

I'm pushing 30, which I know is still young, but I worry that if I don't own property in the next 7 years (by 35), the way things are going, we never will and that scares me looking to the future. There is absolutely no security at all, for normal working families, let alone those who need more help.

[arista]

For Vicky , Kizzy and Jesus

[Kizzy]

I don't get it, what is that?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't get it, what is that?

Steve Bell the artists
view of yesterdays speech
from the Guardian Paper.



its dark humor.

[Kizzy]

Very good, what does it mean then?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Very good, what does it mean then?

"George Osborne used his speech at the 2013
Conservative party conference to announce
that a Tory government would seek to run
an overall budget surplus by 2020"


http://www.theguardian.com/cartoons/archive




A Cartoon Vision of the Future

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Sad reality of this...

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I hear that the Tories are going to force the long term unemployed to do work so they can earn their benefit ...??? They are going to force these people either to sign on every day or pick up litter clean the riverbanks etc.

This is so spiteful it almost beggars belief, the only group of people who have to carry out this sort of work are convicted criminals doing community service, so now the long term unemployed are being criminalised...!!!

There must be a more constructive way to help the LT unemployed not to just humiliate them in this way. The Tory party can rot and burn in hell as far as I'm concerned, a party of the rich for the rich, while the rest of us can just go and fcuk ourselves...!!!

..it isn’t though Nedussa, for me Vicky’s post sums it up perfectly because there are two lots of ‘victims’ here...people are employed to clear river banks, pick up litter etc and probably don’t get paid very much at all and may hate what they’re doing for all we know but have no choice but to do it with financial commitments etc...and for me there are two issues I have with that..one is that..(and no offense..) ..they are seeing and hearing words like ‘humiliating, degrading..etc’ attached to the job that they are doing, which is as valid and necessary as any other job...so how worthless does that make them feel...they don’t deserve to have what they do described as humiliating etc or ‘less than..’..so for me that is an issue....


..but also to add to that feeling of low self-worth that the criticism of this could cause them...they have to face fears that they won’t even have that job at all but will lose it because of the scheme and then themselves be someone having to claim benefits and as Vicky’s post so rightly says, end up doing the same job again just to receive their benefits which is less than their present wage....just crazy really...a screwed up ‘solution’ because it’s no solution at all...but I do think that the unemployed aren’t the only victims here because some people might feel that they would rather do any job than claim benefits and yet being forced to claim benefits is exactly what the result might be...targeting people on a low wage to help people on no wage can’t ever be a solution or one that should even be considered at all....

[arista]

Boris Backs Jamie Oliver's Work Ethic Concerns


http://news.sky.com/story/1148738/bo...ethic-concerns