[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

The current incarnation of the festival seems a bit moot. Unless it was a Pagan festival to begin with, then we have no idea what Christmas or the accompanying paraphernalia would resemble, and whether there would even be a celebration for the baby Jesus at all. I think if you took the Jesus birth myth out of Christmas, then most people wouldn't even notice.

I'm neither suggesting, or ridiculing Christians myself, by saying that the history of religious abuse stretches long and far, and through times where even to say you doubted the existence of god would end in torture at best. So the fact that we're even in a position to discuss the issues is a secular triumph. I don't think Christians/Abrahamic religious people should be too surprised when people are happy to see the power of the church dwindling. As long as we are a Christian country, with representatives in the HOL, then they are up there to be shot at.

I'm not a fan of religion (as you know), but I'm more of a fan of expression and free speech. The further religion is moved out of the public sphere, the better for everyone, but I have no desire to see religion stamped out at all. It should be a really personal thing, and I also have no issues with having public churches, mosques, synagogues, or temples. Just not at the expense of the taxpayer.

People can do what they like as far as I'm concerned, but time is not a significant factor in working out whether opinions and views are worthy.

I reckon if you took every Christian element out of Christmas, people would notice. For a start, you'd have to change the name.

Christianity is an easy target, I think. Look at how Christians are treated in the UK, seeing that it is a "Christian country". White, middle-class people are terrified of upsetting other religions and Christians bear the brunt of that, in my opinion. And at a report of the church crumbling, people are on here saying how pleased they are about it. If you're going to rejoice in the demise of Christianity, then take time off work to celebrate Christmas, I think that's a little cynical. [When I say 'you' I don't mean you personally].