[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Baby Jesus

Hold on a minute. My post was made because I've seen posters calling for their torture. That's wrong, petty, and pretty ******ing barbaric. There is a difference between treating them with kid gloves, and not breaking laws to torture people, because there is a whole area in the middle, right between playstations and eye for an eye.

By the same token, if we're so much better than they are, then why is our first instinct to act in exactly the same way and mirror their behaviour? The crime committed that day was unimaginable to me (as a mostly sane person), so it is equally unimaginable to me that we should want to do the same things in retaliation.

Stop! You're breaking my heart...

Maybe people feel justified saying what they'd like to do to these two because the two murderers themselves have stated that they live by the "eye for an eye" philosophy. I'm tired of being the ones who have to be "better than that" while other people people feel free to commit atrocities on the streets of our cities and then try to justify themselves... and other people say, oh hang on, don't talk about torturing them, that's just awful... Pretty ******ing barbaric is right. But I'm referring to what they did not what some posters said they'd like to do.

My personal belief is that they should be taken outside and shot in the head. No fuss, no ritual, no bills for their care for the rest of their lives. As far as I'm concerned they threw back my concern for their welfare when they did what they did.

Originally Posted by Livia

Stop! You're breaking my heart...

Maybe people feel justified saying what they'd like to do to these two because the two murderers themselves have stated that they live by the "eye for an eye" philosophy. I'm tired of being the ones who have to be "better than that" while other people people feel free to commit atrocities on the streets of our cities and them try to justify themselves... and other people say, oh hang on, don't talk about torturing them, that's just awful... Pretty ******ing barbaric is right. But I'm referring to what they did not what some posters said they'd like to do.

My personal belief is that they should be taken outside and shot in the head. No fuss, no ritual, no bills for their care for the rest of their lives. As far as I'm concerned they threw back my concern for their welfare when they did what they did.

Well I break a lot of hearts naturally. It's what I do - so don't think you're special!

How many atrocities have they actually committed on our streets though? We kill more of our own people through poverty than any islamic terrorist has ever managed either alone or combined. We're so appalling blinkered by the latest shiny news item where everyone can join together in mutual rage, that we fail to see just how equally bad we can be.

I understand that most people would just want to put a bullet in their heads, but you're all wrong. There is no middle ground on this where I'm concerned. Human rights are human rights and need to be fought for and protected for everyone. Yes, even the most despicable kind of person we can all imagine.

It's weird, because all I'm actually advocating is that we don't either murder or torture them. Who'd have known that would ever be a disagreeable statement?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by The Baby Jesus

Well I break a lot of hearts naturally. It's what I do - so don't think you're special!

How many atrocities have they actually committed on our streets though? We kill more of our own people through poverty than any islamic terrorist has ever managed either alone or combined. We're so appalling blinkered by the latest shiny news item where everyone can join together in mutual rage, that we fail to see just how equally bad we can be.

I understand that most people would just want to put a bullet in their heads, but you're all wrong. There is no middle ground on this where I'm concerned. Human rights are human rights and need to be fought for and protected for everyone. Yes, even the most despicable kind of person we can all imagine.

It's weird, because all I'm actually advocating is that we don't either murder or torture them. Who'd have known that would ever be a disagreeable statement?

You mean our Government not us as the average joe on the streets.

But I agree that our Government is vile and corrupt but it's hard to really punish them when there is no actual evidence behind their corruption.

Originally Posted by The Godinator

At least they would be alive under my reign, I wouldn't be able to say the same for anybody else if they ran the country and had them two in their grasp.

After they've been raped and had their food pissed on, we can all pat ourselves on the back that our moral superiority has kept them alive.

Originally Posted by The Godinator

You mean our Government not us as the average joe on the streets.

But I agree that our Government is vile and corrupt but it's hard to really punish them when there is no actual evidence behind their corruption.

My point was that the establishment of this country does far more harm, and causes more death than Islamic terrorists ever could, yet isolated events like this make us ignore what happens everyday.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Baby Jesus

.........My point was that the establishment of this country does far more harm, and causes more death than Islamic terrorists ever could, yet isolated events like this make us ignore what happens everyday.

So far as I remember, the establishment has never run over a member of the public going about their business, stabbed them and attempted to hack off their head before raising a firearm toward the police. I wonder at your reluctance to acknowledge what a freakishly dreadful event this was and take the focus off a pair of dangerous, murdering scumbags who, aside from everything else they've done, cast a very long dark shadow over honest, law-abiding Muslims.

One of your more giddy posts I think, Jesus.

Originally Posted by Livia

So far as I remember, the establishment has never run over a member of the public going about their business, stabbed them and attempted to hack off their head before raising a firearm toward the police. I wonder at your reluctance to acknowledge what a freakishly dreadful event this was and take the focus off a pair of dangerous, murdering scumbags who, aside from everything else they've done, cast a very long dark shadow over honest, law-abiding Muslims.

One of your more giddy posts I think, Jesus.

Not for the first time in this thread, you have completely missed the point. Why wonder at my reluctance to acknowledge what a dreadful freakishly event this was, when I've actually referenced a number of times how dreadful this crime was? So wonder no more.

My only issue, is the completely abhorrent revenge killing/torture being called for in this thread. That's it. I'm not excusing the killing, I'm not ignoring it, and I'm certainly not giving cover to Islamic terrorism.

Murder and torture are equally wrong, whether committed by a so-called soldier of Allah, or whether it's done on my behalf by a government, for the sole purpose of revenge. That this should be so controversial is completely incomprehensible to me.

Punish these men for their crimes within the legal framework that exists. Nothing more, nothing less.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by The Baby Jesus

Not for the first time in this thread, you have completely missed the point. Why wonder at my reluctance to acknowledge what a dreadful freakishly event this was, when I've actually referenced a number of times how dreadful this crime was? So wonder no more.

My only issue, is the completely abhorrent revenge killing/torture being called for in this thread. That's it. I'm not excusing the killing, I'm not ignoring it, and I'm certainly not giving cover to Islamic terrorism.

Murder and torture are equally wrong, whether committed by a so-called soldier of Allah, or whether it's done on my behalf by a government, for the sole purpose of revenge. That this should be so controversial is completely incomprehensible to me.

Punish these men for their crimes within the legal framework that exists. Nothing more, nothing less.

in a nut shell, good people have to kill bad people to keep the rest of the good people safe.

bad people kill good people and good people kill good people without wanting to,

all this eye for an eye making the whole world blind is utter nonsense.

the human race has survived for thousands of years killing each other, it can be with a gun or a knife, or starvation.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by The Baby Jesus

After they've been raped and had their food pissed on, we can all pat ourselves on the back that our moral superiority has kept them alive.



My point was that the establishment of this country does far more harm, and causes more death than Islamic terrorists ever could, yet isolated events like this make us ignore what happens everyday.

Because tbf while I hate all the parties in this country, they can't solve all of our poverty issues over night.

Terrorists however and this is from any country, deliberately go out of their way to hurt innocent people for petty reasons a lot of the time, and in this case they did it in the worst form of cowardice ever, so yes if they are gonna be kept alive then they need to suffer more than the victim did before he died.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by The Godinator

Because tbf while I hate all the parties in this country, they can't solve all of our poverty issues over night.

Terrorists however and this is from any country, deliberately go out of their way to hurt innocent people for petty reasons a lot of the time, and in this case they did it in the worst form of cowardice ever, so yes if they are gonna be kept alive then they need to suffer more than the victim did before he died.

Good points Mock, what these 2 did was for me beyond forgiveness and beyond any kind of accepted behaviour anywhere.

It is obscene that the family of Lee Rigby have to live with this loss, in such a savage and barabaric way that it was done,for the rest of their lives.
These miserable rotten excuses for human beings wil get all they need for the rest of their lioves except for the fact they will not be able to have their freedom.

For me that is a very tiny price they are going to have to pay for the rotten savage and pure evil of the murder they committed and the way they went about it too.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Stop! You're breaking my heart...

Maybe people feel justified saying what they'd like to do to these two because the two murderers themselves have stated that they live by the "eye for an eye" philosophy. I'm tired of being the ones who have to be "better than that" while other people people feel free to commit atrocities on the streets of our cities and then try to justify themselves... and other people say, oh hang on, don't talk about torturing them, that's just awful... Pretty ******ing barbaric is right. But I'm referring to what they did not what some posters said they'd like to do.

My personal belief is that they should be taken outside and shot in the head. No fuss, no ritual, no bills for their care for the rest of their lives. As far as I'm concerned they threw back my concern for their welfare when they did what they did.

I 100% agree, I am not a punishing for punishings sake kind of person but I feel total contempt for these 2, in fact I would hand them over to the Military and let them deal with them all through their life sentences.

This was a purely evil act, they even rammed into him with a car so he had no chance at all of having even the slightest possible chance to get away from them or in any way defend himself.

Be soft in any way on these 2 barbarians, not likely for me.
As you said earlier,they will get food, recreation, visits,if anyone would really want to visit them, medical help when needed too.
Lee Rigby's family always felt likely he could be killed in an attack while on duty somewhere but to have this sickening, inhuman, savage and cowardly attack and murder done to him in his own Country while totally unarmed too, I cannot see where these 2 warrant the slightest crumb of any understanding or leniency especially after pleading not guilty and prolonging the agony of Lee's family further..

They would get not an ounce of it from me at all.